Kaleidescape now charging to scan unrecognized discs

[Peter Nielsen]

The "loan process" link on the Kscape interface was broken for a long time. However, now it's updated, and it looks like they are preparing to charge us $10 for every disc we loan them.

http://www.kaleidescape.com/support/loan.php

You contact us to schedule a loan (see below), please note, there is a $10/disc charge for the labor to process your titles. You send us your discs. We catalog the discs in your shipment and send you an email confirmation. We process the discs for complete movie and music information. We update the Kaleidescape Movie Guide and Music Guide based on this information and your Kaleidescape System updates automatically.

 

[brodricj]

Thanks for posting that info, I had a gut feeling they would charge for this service sooner or later. $10/disc wouldn't come close to covering their labor charge as there is quite a bit of work involved in processing each title. Do they still cover the return shipping charge when returning your content? This will probably affect customers outside the US market moreso, I find that many of the discs I buy in Australia - even major titles - aren't recognized in the Movie Guide. I will still use the service despite having to pay, for the convenience of being able to "play movie/concert" rather than just "play disc" is a lot of what the Kaleidescape experience is all about.

 

[Peter Nielsen]

I think it's outrageous to charge for it unless they provide a way for us to do the work yourself. Now, if it soon will be possible to add bookmarks and aspect information ourselves, it's a different story. Maybe they have such a feature coming, and just put the $10/disc there for the future.

However, until they provide the features in the software for entering the info ourselves, the service better be free of charge!

 

[brodricj]

The trouble with an end-user DIY option for movies is a lack of quality control/assurance processes, which they are very tight about when they go about this work themselves. Somehow I can't see them letting us upload data to their movie guide db.

 

[Peter Nielsen]

Yes, of course. However, I'm talking about my own movie collection only. What I do would only be visible and applicable to my server. It would be nice to be able to do the work myself - I'd like to avoid shipping my movies and CDs to them (some of them which are very expensive super-limited collector's editions).

Charging $10 is adding insult to injury IMHO!

 

[TivoSloth]

Ugh - $10/disc is even worse than $10/title. I bought the series of Red vs Blue and probably 20 of those discs in the series aren't recognized. Processing would cost more than I spent on the series.

I've been saving up imported movies to package them together. I have 36 titles that need to be processed. Not sure how many discs need work from those titles. Some of them are television shows where K's meta data is a little wonky like the last disc in every season of House - each disc is grouped as a special feature and not with the other season discs. Or the complete series of The Tudors has some wonky identification issue with a disc that has special features.

I can understand there is a cost to process meta data, but I would do it myself if the web interface supported it. And the data could go back to K or I could just use it on my system so their meta data is kept clean. Most of the time the start movie (Play Movie) is just a chapter from the DVD menu, so it's pretty hard to get that wrong. But end users can't create the Play Movie in the interface, only favorite scenes that are one level down in the interface.

Don't get me started on CD meta data and the shifting sands of CD cover art. I've given up chasing the rainbow of having every CD with cover art.

 

[Peter Nielsen]

FWIW, I have 200 DVD/Blurays that need to be processed (missing bookmarks).

Cover art is no problem. I have scanned the cover of all my ~2000 CDs. The problem with CDs is that Kaleidescape mis-detects some CDs and import them ON TOP OF EACH OTHER. I have about a dozen CDs that this happens for. The only way to fix it is to send the CDs to Kscape. That sucks...

 

[TivoSloth]

Wow Peter, 200 DVD/bluray titles. That would drive me crazy. I save them up and send them in when I approach 50 titles with missing bookmarks.

With this change it's now like a roulette wheel when you import something. Face to palm if you important a season of a tv series having 6 discs and it's not recognized. So you send it in and pay, or hope that it eventually gets recognized/receives bookmarks. You're gambling on import and then playing a waiting game if you don't want to dump $60 into an unrecognized tv series season that you paid $40 to purchase.

My ratio is pretty good for bookmarks - 2652 titles total with 36 titles missing bookmarks.

 

[Peter Nielsen]

I have 1396 titles total with approx. 170 titles missing bookmarks. You got a great ratio there. Most mainstream movies, obviously

 

[Transepoch]

DVDs... roughly 800 of 1600-1700 titles (hmm, come to think of it, should be ~1700 of 4300.. cannot check while replicating, but a fair number of those are series not rolled up)
BR... historically was trending around 10%, but lately gone up closer to 15%, and the latest batch looks to be at least as bad (estimating totals ~80 of those 512 already imported.)

Lord knows how many discs that is. It was ugly when we lost shipping in one direction (probably would've been cheaper to fly the person out with their gear in the first place,) but there's no way things are getting done now with a per-fee. That's what I get for not finishing things quicker. Just going to have to hope I'm lucky in the studio lotto.

 

[TivoSloth]

I have a fair number of mainstream titles - all Region 1. But for the titles that are missing bookmarks, most are certainly mainstream, except for the Supreme Court stuff, Red v. Blue and the poker stuff. Downtown Abbey, The Closer, Damages, House - these are pretty mainstream - Fringe, really, and KoQ?

My more obscure titles were always sent in from 2007 onward for bookmarks. I had maybe 125 missing info in my first batch wen I had a loaded 5U server. I think overall I've probably sent in 250 titles for processing over the last 7 years.

Maybe there's a middle ground between really obscure titles (charge), somewhat obscure but not mainstream (nominal or no charge), and mainstream, but variant disc pressing (no charge). The really obscure may not enhance the K meta data collection for movies. The somewhat obscure are probably held by others and overlap so that's a plus across customers. Mainstream, well, that's typical overhead for a business.

My list of titles missing bookmarks is below - this whole new process took me completely by surprise or it would have been less because most of this list came from Christmas deal purchases.


Movies Missing Video Bookmarks
The Closer (Season 6)
Damages (Season 5)
Downton Abbey (Season 1): Bonus Features
Downton Abbey (Season 2): Bonus Features
Downton Abbey (Season 3): Bonus Features
Downton Abbey (Season 4): Bonus Features
Flight - Bluray
Fringe (Season 5)
House M.D. (Seasons) (Episodes 1-5)
Julie & Julia
The King of Queens (Season 9)
Life of Pi - Bluray
The Mary Tyler Moore Show (Season 7)
MTV Cribs: Hip Hop
Ned & Stacey (Season 1)
On the Q.T.
Poker Superstars Invitational Tournament (Series 1)
Red vs. Blue: Behind the Scenes
Red vs. Blue: Grifball (Vol. 2)
Red vs. Blue: The Recollection
Schindler's List
Slightly Single In LA - Bluray and unrecognized
Sons of Anarchy (Season 4)
Summer with Monika - Bluray
The Supreme Court (Vol. 1): One Nation Under Law
The Supreme Court (Vol. 2): A New Kind of Justice
The Supreme Court (Vol. 3): A Nation of Liberties
The Supreme Court (Vol. 4): The Rehnquist Revolution
Three Colors: White - Bluray
The Tudors (Complete Series)
Ultimate Poker Challenge (Season 1)
The Untouchables (Season 1, Vol. 1)
The Untouchables (Season 1, Vol. 2)
The Untouchables (Season 4, Vol. 1)
Upstream Color - Bluray
World Poker Tour (Season 1)
World Poker Tour: Battle of Champions

 

[TivoSloth]

And here's some CDs that don't have cover art. At one point, they all did, but not so much anymore. Every time I update the cover art over the years, it gets overwritten at some point.

Anthrax State of Euphoria
Arcade Fire The Suburbs
The Avett Brothers I and Love and You
Bon Jovi Cross Road: The Best of Bon Jovi
Bush Digital Box Set
Kasey Chambers The Captain
Chicago Chicago III
Chicago Chicago VII [Bonus Tracks]
Cinderella Rocked, Wired & Bluesed: The Greatest Hits
Billy Ray Cyrus 20th Century Masters - The Millennium Collection: The Best of Billy Ray Cyrus
Neil Diamond Hot August Night
Eminem 8 Mile [Deluxe Edition]
Guns N' Roses Use Your Illusion I
Guns N' Roses Use Your Illusion II
Jay-Z The Blueprint Collector's Edition [40 Tracks]
Jay-Z Hard Knock Life
Jay-Z In My Lifetime, Vol. 1
Jay-Z Unplugged
Elton John Greatest Hits, Vol. 2 [Polygram]
Elton John Rare Masters
Kayah & Goran Bregovic Kayah I Bregovic
Lady Gaga Born This Way
Andrew Lloyd Webber The Phantom of the Opera [Original London Cast]
Ludacris Word of Mouf
The Lumineers The Lumineers
Alanis Morissette Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie
Night Ranger Night Ranger's Greatest Hits
No Doubt The Singles 1992-2003
Onyx Bacdafucup
Original Soundtrack Martin Scorsese Presents the Blues: A Musical Journey (Disc 3 of 5)
Original Soundtrack MTV Presents Laguna Beach: Summer Can Last Forever
Original TV Soundtrack Desperate Housewives
Public Enemy 25th Anniversary Collection
Rick Springfield Rock of Life
Cat Stevens Gold
Tesla Time's Makin Changes: The Best of Tesla
Various Artists Entourage: Music from and Inspired by the Hit HBO Original Series
Various Artists Jawbreaker
Yaz Upstairs at Eric's

 

[Mark H]

I am currently running at about 130 titles missing bookmarks out of 3000 so this is going to be expensive.... I have provided over 750 titles in the past for bookmarking that we all enjoy if you buy the disk and add them to your system.

Do I smell the opportunity for royalties for improving viewing experiences around the world by lending so many disks

 

[Pio435]

well, pretty disappointing for a new customer. I own a k-System for about 3 months. My movie database is not so big yet, but I had about 40 movies out of 160 which had to be reviewed. I'm pretty sure that here in europe relatively more movies have to be processed because there are less K-System owners here. And now they change the selling title her to "bluray server". And there will probably not be a swiss online store where I can download the content (which - hopefully for the us customers - allready will be taged) ....

For me, the free loan program was (with the exception of postage) the selling point, because I use the entire movie data (including beginning, credits, pause, masking) for automation in my cinema. Now I should also pay besides the already to expensive hardware for this service? I only accepted the overpriced hardware assuming, to pay for the loanservice with it!

.. at least there should be a possibility that we can enter the data for the cinema controller ourselfs... but would still be disapointing! When I have to do the work on my own, I could also go with a XBMC-Client :-(

I am eager to see where things are headed here in Switzerland ...

Fact is, the DVD CCA appeal Settlement seems to have negative effects in the Companis selling politics for none us customer ...

 

[Drhemi]

Charging for Bookmarking???

Wow! This is such an integral part of the whole K experience, I can't understand how they now want to charge for it, especially when Kaleidescape and their other customers all benefit in the end. Yes, it is labor intensive, but everyone, not just the submitter is the better off because of it. I think more and more people will now wait in the hopes that someone else bites the bullet first. This will result in fewer titles being bookmarked and we all lose out. I suppose it is, at least in part, temporary as the shift to downloads gradually takes over. Then K will have to bookmark everything they sell anyways. Personally, many of my titles (lots of British TV for example) will never be available through the store here in Canada, let alone the UK. How about K opening up the K stores to any K owner, anywhere. I already shop at Amazon UK and US in addition to my home Amazon.ca. Why can't I shop at the various K stores the same way? If I can purchase a hard copy online or when I travel, why can't I purchase a digital copy? Rights issues, I know, but it's crap!

Anyways, I just shipped off 96 titles (151 discs) to K yesterday. This spot had been arranged months ago. No mention was made of any potential charges. I trust (hope) these will be processed as has been previously done for me many times before. Otherwise, I will have to have them shipped back, as I am unprepared to fork over $1500 at this time. I sincerely hope that this new scheme is reevaluated as it really is part and parcel of the high K ownership $ we have all invested to have the best movie system out there.

Thanks for listening,

Wayne

 

[brodricj]

Anyways, I just shipped off 96 titles (151 discs) to K yesterday. This spot had been arranged months ago. No mention was made of any potential charges. I trust (hope) these will be processed as has been previously done for me many times before. Otherwise, I will have to have them shipped back, as I am unprepared to fork over $1500 at this time.

The $10/disc charge applies to loan appointments made from today. The charge does not apply to any loan appointments made yesterday or before.

 

[brodricj]

?...The problem with CDs is that Kaleidescape mis-detects some CDs and import them ON TOP OF EACH OTHER. I have about a dozen CDs that this happens for. The only way to fix it is to send the CDs to Kscape. That sucks...

I'll ask them if correcting wrong CD associations will also attract the $10/disc charge...

 

[Transepoch]

The $10/disc charge applies to loan appointments made from today. The charge does not apply to any loan appointments made yesterday or before.

So they posted it before it took effect? Meaning rather than ranting on the new policy (that wasn't even policy yet) we could've been scheduling appointments and only had to eat shipping? *dead stare* That is even less amusing than being asked to pay an annual salary for 2-months of work (based on time to process the first batch.)

 

[brodricj]

So they posted it before it took effect?

The new policy came into effect at the time of the "official" announcement (which was communicated via personal email to customers), but you heard the rumor/news first on the forum here 2 days before that. I too wish I grabbed an appointment prior to today!

 

[brodricj]

I'll ask them if correcting wrong CD associations will also attract the $10/disc charge...

Answered as follows:

"We?ll be happy to take a look at CD albums with minor issues on a case by case basis, and try to address fixes free of charge, and without requiring you to send them to us. The quantity of CDs and level of resolution will determine how we escalate those discs to be sent in otherwise."

As far as I know fixing wrong CD associations, and putting unrecognized multi-disc CD sets under a single coverart in the UI, usually requires sending them the disc.