I hate Kaleidescape!

[rbienstock]

I must say that as I spend more and more time with my Kaleidescape system, I have to say that while the product is, more or less, great when it works, I have come to really detest the company and its policies. Whenever I have an issue, I go to my dealer who tells me "I can never get a straight answer from Kaleidescape, maybe you should contact support" but when I do contact support, all they do is refer me back to the dealer. I have no complaints with my dealer -- they give me above-and-beyond-the-call-of-duty support for every other product that they have supplied me with. The only place that my support falls short is with Kaleidescape, so the blame has to rest with that company, not the dealer.

The fact of the matter is that as an ultra-high-end luxury product, Kaleidescape should be going out of their way to make the end user feel happy and have pride in ownership. They should be treating customers in the same way that the Rolls-Royce dealership treats my father: once he dropped $250,000 to "join the club" whenever there is even the slightest problem, their response is "we're terribly sorry, sir. We'll rectify the problem as soon as possible. What can we do to make it up to you for the inconvenience you've suffered?" On the other hand, if you have an issue with Kaleidescape, their response is inevitably "too bad, but we'd be happy to sell you some more equipment to solve your problem." Unlike Rolls-Royce who are selling long term user satisfaction, Kaleidescape seems to prefer to adopt the approach of a drug dealer or call girl, selling momentary elation while always having their hand out to receive payment for another trick once the momentary elation goes away. And like a drug dealer or hooker, once they've got you hooked on their product, they have you and you can't do without, so that they can feel free to treat you with contempt. And I must say that I acutely feel the contempt that permeates nearly every communication I've ever had from Kaleidescape.

My latest experience with the whores at Kaleidescape has to do with the fact that the original 3-year warranty on my Kaleidescape system was allowed to expire without my being offered an opportunity to extend it, though in truth, I should consider myself lucky as current buyers only get 2 years. The fact is that considering the enormous cost of a Kaleidescape system, it should come with a lifetime warranty, but that's another issue entirely. Not that Kaleidescape's repairs are that great anyway. My original Movie Reader had to be sent in for repair, which took months and didn't really solve the problem, and now has the same failure that didn't get fixed the first time. My real current beef is that virtually my entire system is failing less than 5 weeks after the expiration of the original warranty. My dealer fought Kaleidescape to get them to extend the warranty, but they want a really crazy amount, almost 40% of what I paid for the system when it was new!

And, of course, there is no real alternative to Kaleidescape so one is forced to pay whatever they ask. So I'll pay. But after I pay, I won't feel happy, merely dirty and abused. Great business model Kaleidescape. Congratulations!

 

[ptrubey]

I have had no issues with Kaleidescape support myself. Of course, nothing has broken on my system after many years of use. But I did have some tricky de-interlacing issues on some titles which they looked into and fixed (software issue). K is expensive and repairs are going to be expensive (they are under no obligation to extend warranties or even offer extensions), but that's the way it is. Don't believe for a second that repairing a Rolls is cheap either.

Since you can afford a K system, my advice is to ignore the cost and enjoy the system. Getting yourself worked up does nothing except make your quality of life suffer. You aren't about to change how Kaleidescape conducts their business so why bother?

 

[cinelife]

We spoke about this briefly, and I intended to pass on commenting on your post, but given that K is unlikely to respond on this forum I think it fair to make a couple of comments.

You are obviously upset, but it is unfair to place the blame for your situation on K. Owner's are given the opportunity to purchase extended warranties at the time of sale, and at any time prior to the expiration of the warranty included with their systems/components. The choice to purchase or not purchase is each buyer's decision.

K's initial warranty, when compared to other manufacturer's in this industry, is equal to most and exceeds many. The warranty period is a business decision. K has made their warranty clear from the beginning. It is a factor we buyer's use to evaluate the purchase. Once the purchase is made, it is implied we considered the stated warranty period and accepted the terms. Why chastise K for our decision?

Regarding not being notified that your warranty was about to expire, not many companies include such a notice, and those that do are typically marketing additional servivces. K has never said they would provide such a service. Now having said that, K does provide warranty information to each dealer that allows us to see which clients have warranties that are about to expire. It is up to the dealers to keep up with this information and provide warranty extention options to the client. I personally send emails, and when possible, call the client to remind them of the warranty expiration. Is this required? NO, but it is a service we voluntarily provide. Not sure why that didn't happen in your case (I'm not your dealer).

I don't know of any company that allows you to buy an extended warranty once the original warranty lapses.

Your comment about the "whores at K" is, IMO, an extremely rude comment. I work with those people on a regular basis and can say with certainty that they are dedicated caring individuals that do what they can to satisfy each owner. Do they have limits dictated by a specific business model? Of course, all businesses set service limitations. That said, K is rather generous with their support and they normally go out of their way to help when possible.

I'm sorry you are currently having a bad experience with your system.

Jim

 

[carajo]

I think this may be the first negative post I have ever read for kaleidescape anywhere. I have read about people complaining about price quite a bit, but never ever quality issues. I have been a user for many years and have absolutley never experienced a hiccup. I also know many people that use the system and all are very happy. And by the way, the K support is top notch. When I was having AMX control issues they assisted AMX with programming to get it right..

Anyone that has used a computer to store and watch movies knows what frustration is..

 

[MTrueblood]

When I saw the title of this thread I thought that it was tongue-in-cheek. I have loved my Kaleidescape system. If I have any complaint it is that I have been moved to buy so many DVDs. The quality has been wonderful.

 

[JerryL]

I thought it was a joke also.

Im sorry to read of this. I have to say my experience has been the total opposite- in my case Kaleidescape has been excellent to deal with.

 

[josh]

Wow, I'm also surprised since I've always found their support group helpful and responsive.

I can understand the frustration with an expensive device that fails shortly after the warranty expires. But I can also see Kaleidescape's side that allowing someone to purchase a warranty extension after a device has failed outside of warranty would be very odd. It's like letting someone buy life insurance after someone died.

However, if the problems were documented as having started to occur WITHIN the warranty period, and the problems weren't resolved, and then it failed with the same problems after the warranty expired, then I'd hope Kaleidescape would cover the issue. Car makers typically do this...

So I have no idea on the specifics of the communications with your dealer and with Kaleidescape, I do hope both you and they hope to resolve it to your satisfaction in a way that is also fair to the company.

Please let us know if the issues do get resolved. It would definitely be a blemish for the company to have a public posting this negative in a place that is becoming frequented by many new and prospective owners.

(I'll also agree with Jim that the nasty name calling doesn't seem fair, and is certainly not in any way typical of many of our own interactions with the employees at Kaleidescape)

--josh

 

[Legdiian]

My latest experience with the whores at Kaleidescape has to do with the fact that the original 3-year warranty on my Kaleidescape system was allowed to expire without my being offered an opportunity to extend it,

Here is a post you made earlier this month :

I have an original white 5U server with 6 400 GB disks and 6 750GB disks. The warranty is about to expire, and rather than purchase an extended warranty, what I would like to do is simply replace my server with a new 3U server if it should ever fail and move my disks to the new server. Does Kaleidescape allow this?

Sounds to me like declined the offer to extend your warranty.

Maybe your dad can buy you a new one?

 

[rbienstock]

I have loved my Kaleidescape system. ... The quality has been wonderful.

The system is great. The service and support sucks. So long as it works, you're doing just fine. When something breaks, watch out. YMMV.

 

[rbienstock]

Sounds to me like declined the offer to extend your warranty.

Good research. But you conveniently skipped over the following:

My dealer fought Kaleidescape to get them to extend the warranty, but they want a really crazy amount, almost 40% of what I paid for the system when it was new!

Indeed, it was the insane amount that Kaleidescape was asking to extend my warranty, and the fact that I was told they would deny a repair for the recurrence of a problem that had previously been repaired under warranty that precipitated my earlier tirade. And, in truth, the price isn't the issue, it is the principle. I simply resent the perception, true or not, that I seem to be constantly asked to throw money at the system to get it to work correctly.

 

[rbienstock]

Wow, I'm also surprised since I've always found their support group helpful and responsive.

Really? Every communication I've ever had with the company, unless it involved a problem with a disk being improperly imported or bookmarked, always elicited only a response that they wouldn't help me and that I need to work through my dealer. After getting that response a few times, I just quit trying to contact them.

I can understand the frustration with an expensive device that fails shortly after the warranty expires. But I can also see Kaleidescape's side that allowing someone to purchase a warranty extension after a device has failed outside of warranty would be very odd. It's like letting someone buy life insurance after someone died.

That's not how it happened. There was some lack of clarity about when my warranty actually expired (i.e., the date on which the product was ordered versus the date on which it was delivered, which turns out to be a critical distinction in this instance) and I was led to understand that extensions only started to be offered after I purchased the product and that the necessary info for me to get the extension never came from Kaleidescape even though I had expressed an interest in extending well before the expiration date, whatever that date actually is.

However, if the problems were documented as having started to occur WITHIN the warranty period, and the problems weren't resolved, and then it failed with the same problems after the warranty expired, then I'd hope Kaleidescape would cover the issue. Car makers typically do this...

We'll see, because one of the two devices in my system that failed was a unit that was previously repaired under warranty and that has begun to have the same problem since the warranty expired.

So I have no idea on the specifics of the communications with your dealer and with Kaleidescape, I do hope both you and they hope to resolve it to your satisfaction in a way that is also fair to the company.

Please let us know if the issues do get resolved. It would definitely be a blemish for the company to have a public posting this negative in a place that is becoming frequented by many new and prospective owners.

(I'll also agree with Jim that the nasty name calling doesn't seem fair, and is certainly not in any way typical of many of our own interactions with the employees at Kaleidescape)

That I swear I will do. I only want a resolution that is fair to all parties, and if that occurs, I will certainly report that. And I don't really consider what I did "name calling," and to the extent that it is seen as such, I withdraw the comment. What I was trying to invoke was a metaphor which is defined as "a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable." I do not believe that Kaleidescape are actual drug dealers or whores, merely that at least to me, they are always available to solve any problem I may have if only I fork over a generous cash contribution.

 

[rbienstock]

I work with those people on a regular basis and can say with certainty that they are dedicated caring individuals that do what they can to satisfy each owner. Do they have limits dictated by a specific business model? Of course, all businesses set service limitations. That said, K is rather generous with their support and they normally go out of their way to help when possible.

Jim,

You're a dealer, so they deal with you on a completely different basis. As an end user, they won't talk to me, they just send me back to my dealer, and my dealer says that they can't get a response. Maybe the dealer is lying, I don't know, but if they are then that is all the more reason why Kaleidescape should deal with me directly.

 

[cinelife]

Jim,

You're a dealer, so they deal with you on a completely different basis. As an end user, they won't talk to me, they just send me back to my dealer, and my dealer says that they can't get a response. Maybe the dealer is lying, I don't know, but if they are then that is all the more reason why Kaleidescape should deal with me directly.

I cannot speak for your dealer, but I assume they are working on your behalf. I can say it would be very unusual (frankly IMO not possible) that K would ignore you. They have ALWAYS been the most responsive tech support I've encountered in the industry.

I do understand your frustration, and hope this gets resolved for you soon. My convversation with you leads me to believe you are a level headed guy that is just really frustrated with the process.

Again, I hope you find a solution soon.

Jim

 

[MichaelM]

Kaleidescape has always been committed to delivering excellent service in addition to excellent products. We were dismayed to read Mr. Bienstock’s claims about the horrible service he and his dealer have allegedly received from Kaleidescape. We were so concerned about Mr. Bienstock’s allegations that four of our executives spent time Sunday and today researching our records of Mr. Bienstock’s system and his communications with the company, trying to find some basis for these allegations.

Based on our records, Mr. Bienstock’s system has been very reliable. The only failure that we are aware of is a Reader that his dealer sent to Kaleidescape for repair 18 months ago. According to our records, we received it on June 29, 2007, and we returned the repaired unit to the dealer on July 6, 2007 – one week later, not “months.” During the past 18 months we received no further report of any problem with this Reader other than Mr. Bienstock’s postings to this forum.

Kaleidescape provides online tools that allow dealers to determine when customer warranties will expire. In addition, Kaleidescape actively encourages dealers to inform customers when their warranty periods are about to expire. In spite of this effort, some dealers don’t pass this information on, and the customer doesn’t realize that he could buy an extended warranty until his standard warranty had expired. For this reason Kaleidescape often permits a customer to purchase an extended warranty even if the standard warranty has recently expired, assuming there are no unusual circumstances. Mr. Bienstock claims his “dealer fought Kaleidescape to get them to extend the warranty.” This is not true; we are happy to sell extended warranties. While we do not know what Mr. Bienstock paid for his system or what his dealer quoted him for extended warranty, I do know that Kaleidescape sent a written quote for an extended warranty to Mr. Bienstock’s dealer on December 19, 2008 (48 days after his standard warranty had expired), and the amount quoted was not anywhere close to “40%” of his system’s MSRP. We do not control how our dealers resell Kaleidescape’s extended warranty; some dealers package it as part of a service contract that includes additional warranty services of value to their customers.

I do not know what Mr. Bienstock means when he writes, “my real current beef is that virtually my entire system is failing…” It appears to us that Mr. Bienstock’s system has been running continuously for at least the past month, with no problems reported or logged. We have no open trouble reports for Mr. Bienstock’s system. If there are any problems with Mr. Bienstock’s system, we would be happy to work with Mr. Bienstock and his dealer to resolve them.

We sent email to Mr. Bienstock today (prior to his most recent postings) in an attempt to find out what is wrong with his system. He has not responded. If Mr. Bienstock wants us to deal with him directly (as he claims), he will need to contact us; we do not have his telephone number. We have never refused to talk with Mr. Bienstock. Kaleidescape has never denied a repair. We always stand behind our products.

I have personally reviewed many of the communications the company has had with Mr. Bienstock and with his dealer, and I see nothing disrespectful or unprofessional in any of these email messages.

Kaleidescape’s customer service has earned high ratings and many compliments from our dealers and customers. We aren’t perfect, and we are always striving to make improvements. If anybody feels that we are failing to deliver the service they expect, or if you have a suggestion for how we could improve, please contact me at, michael.malcolm@kaleidescape.com.

Michael Malcolm, CEO
Kaleidescape, Inc.

 

[Legdiian]

Good research. But you conveniently skipped over the following:





Indeed, it was the insane amount that Kaleidescape was asking to extend my warranty, and the fact that I was told they would deny a repair for the recurrence of a problem that had previously been repaired under warranty that precipitated my earlier tirade. And, in truth, the price isn't the issue, it is the principle. I simply resent the perception, true or not, that I seem to be constantly asked to throw money at the system to get it to work correctly.

I skipped over nothing. You were complaining that the "whores" at Kaleidescape allowed your warranty to lapse without offering you an extension. I simply pointed out that you were lying because earlier this month you made reference to your warranty running out soon.

 

[DigitalStudioWerks]

All I can say is WOW!

For the CEO to spend his time looking into the situation, reviewing the history, emailing the customer AND to give his email address on a public forum shows just how committed Kaleidescape is to it's customers.

My 2 cents.

 

[rbienstock]

Michael,

I just have a few points: (1) The situation with my broken reader is not exactly as you describe. I'll be happy to e-mail you the details. And the reader has again failed. (2) You're correct about the cost of the extended warranty. I made a stupid calculation error in that I took the initial price I was quoted for the system (which had a 10% discount from the dealer) and used that to calculate the percentage that I was quoted for the extended warranty, which really isn't fair because the warranty covers additional players and drives that I added to my order later on that I should have used in the calculation. Thus when you calculate the actual total cost of my system ($34,950), the extended warranties were only a little more than 20% of the total cost, or 10% per year. Now maybe I have a foolish expectation of how much an extended warranty should cost, and maybe 10% a year is a reasonable price for continuing paid maintenance on my system, but it still seems high to me. (3) Someone from Kaleidescape did send me an e-mail asking me to contact them, and I did try to call the two numbers posted in that message, but no one answered either number. I'm glad that Kaleidescape is willing to discuss this with me directly, and I look forward to hearing from someone from the company. (4) I understand how small SNAFUs can build into big annoyances and I am heartened that you have chosen to give this your personal attention. That is certainly above and beyond my expectations and leads me to believe that my problems may well be a glitch in otherwise good service renedered by Kaleidescape, as attested to by others in this thread. And, as I promised earlier in this thread, when and if this matter is satisfactorily resolved (by which I mean that all parties are satisfied, I'm not trying to engage in public blackmailing here), I will certainly post that here as you are entitled to have the resolution aired as publicly as the complaints.

 

[rbienstock]

I skipped over nothing. You were complaining that the "whores" at Kaleidescape allowed your warranty to lapse without offering you an extension. I simply pointed out that you were lying because earlier this month you made reference to your warranty running out soon.

No, you misquoted me. I only received a quote for the extended warranty AFTER it was allowed to elapse. At that point, it did not make sense for me to spend $3,400 to extend the warranty on an obsolete server when that money would be more profitably spent on upgrading the server. You are correct that I said that the warranty was about to expire, because I didn't think that it was necessary to go into the gory details of my efforts in getting extended protection out of Kaleidescape. So you are correct: I was lying earlier -- when I said that my warranty was about to expire and I wasn't sure that I should extend it, that wasn't true. The truth is that the warranty had already expired without my knowledge, I was finally made aware of the cost of extending, and I wasn't sure that it made financial sense and I was exploring other options. Earlier on, I didn't think it made sense to publicly discuss my warranty problems, so I phrased it in a way that gave truth of the situation, that I had an opportunity to extend that I wasn't sure I should take, without going into the details of the difficulties I had even getting that option. It was only after I found out that there was no real upgrade path, that the camel's back was broken, if you will, and I lost my patience with the situation. So you're right -- I was lying, but I was lying because I didn't think that these problems needed to be publicly aired. But you forced it out into the open. Are you happy now?

 

[Legdiian]

So you're right -- I was lying, but I was lying because I didn't think that these problems needed to be publicly aired. But you forced it out into the open. Are you happy now?

 

[ptrubey]

It doesn't surprise me that Michael Malcolm, K's CEO, is stepping in here - he's that kind of guy and K is that kind of company. Very unique in today's world. This whole thread confirms to me that K delivers excellent customer service, the original poster's hysterical rants notwithstanding. I'm sorry, but no amount of backpeddling will make the original poster look good in my eyes now.