Recently added a Strato V to my dedicated theater. I’m not interested in another K device for the living room system but looking for a way still watch there (in 4K DV + bitstream audio) and I do have a CAT7 cable that I’m using for network access but can repurpose it to use for hdmi over CAT and just use wifi or MOCA for network access. I see a lot of the OREI brand devices on Amazon plus Monoprices Blackbird units neither of which are very expensive. I would need one with a loop back hdmi at the transmitter end to go to AVR in theater. Seems most have IR capability which I would need. Anyone have any experience with these devices and have any recs? Thanks.
-
Thanks for visiting the Kaleidescape Owners' Forum
This forum is for the community of Kaleidescape owners, and others interested in learning about the system, equipment, services, and the company itself.It is run by a group of enthusiastic Kaleidescape owners and dealers purely as a service to this community.
This board is not affiliated in any way with Kaleidescape, Inc.
For official technical support, product information, or customer service, please visit www.kaleidescape.com
You can dismiss this box forever by clicking the "X" in the upper right corner of this message. -
You are currently in "Guest" mode and not logged in with a registered account.
The forum is free to use and most of the forum can be used by guests who are not registered....
... but we strongly encourage you to register for a full account. There is no cost to register for a full account.
Benefits of registering for a full account:
- Participate in the discussions! You must have a registered account to make posts on the forums. You will be able to start your own thread on a topic or question, or you can reply to other threads/discussions.
- Use the "Conversation" feature (known as "private messaging" on other forums) to communicate directly with any of the other users here.
- Access the Files area. The "resources" area of the forum contains many "Favorite Scene" and Script files that can dramatically increase the enjoyment of your Kaleidescape system. Go directly to great scenes in your favorite movies, created by other owners, and add automation to playback of your system with Scripts.
- You won't see this annoying notice at the top of every screen!😊
This box goes away for registered users.
HDMI over CAT
- Thread starter cardsdoc
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2023
- Messages
- 2,304
Just do lots of research and read reviews from real people. Given that you're dealing with a Strato V, I'm assuming Dolby Vision is going to be critical for you, and this will be the least likely supported feature. You may even see devices list it, but then reviews will claim otherwise.
I tried much more expensive solutions with Cat 5 cable and could never achieve basic HDR. I finally had to run new fiber.
Yeah I may just need to try a couple. DV is ideal but not critical. The V retains most of the DV color data converting to HDR and the LG OLED dynamic tone mapping is pretty good. I ran this cat7 when the basement was being remodeled and had access but can’t run any additional cables now.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2020
- Messages
- 35
HDMI over CAT: please don't do it.
HDMI needs up to 18Gbps. If you run that over CAT (even 10G), you're compressing a lot, which kind of defeats the purpose of Kaleidescape.
Also be careful of network bandwidth and latency between server and player. MOCA introduces latency which has been shown to cause playback problems.
If you want Kaleidescape in your LR, consider a Strato M. At 2K (with REC.2020 and Dolby Vision), it will look far better than compressing HDMI ... especially if your seating distance is >= 1.5x the screen diagonal.
HDMI needs up to 18Gbps. If you run that over CAT (even 10G), you're compressing a lot, which kind of defeats the purpose of Kaleidescape.
Also be careful of network bandwidth and latency between server and player. MOCA introduces latency which has been shown to cause playback problems.
If you want Kaleidescape in your LR, consider a Strato M. At 2K (with REC.2020 and Dolby Vision), it will look far better than compressing HDMI ... especially if your seating distance is >= 1.5x the screen diagonal.
I’m not very worried about a slight loss of quality for this location. It just needs to be reliable so family can use it. Also I’m 13’ from an 77” screen so resolving 4K is questionable at best. Yes a Strato M would be fine but there is no way I’m spending for a Strato M here. All critical viewing is in the theater. This is just to have occasional access to K content. MOCA would not be for the K-scape just for ATV 4K streaming in lieu of the CAT7 that would get repurposed. I’ve been using MOCA for years for streaming and UHD disc rips via Plex with no problems. It’s a great solution if you have existing coax run through the house.
I share your concern about compression, but I haven't seen anything yet that demonstrates what is being lost. AVProEdge makes pretty robust products, and they have this:
40m 18Gbps HDBaseT Extender
They claim:
Perhaps this is just typical marketing hyperbole - I don't really know.
Have you seen this, or similar devices, in action? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm wondering if the loss is minimally perceptible, or possibly even not perceptible, and perhaps suitable for a secondary location like the one the OP is considering.
Thanks. I know AVPro makes high quality stuff. I suspect it will be more than I want to spend. Also it doesn’t have an hdmi out at the transmitter end. I will likely just try one of the OREI units off Amazon and just return if it doesn’t work.
Yeah, I checked some prices and it's around $1000 in most places, so not cheap.
But both receiver and transmitter do have HDMI out - there would be no way for this to work if they didn't.
Hopefully the Amazon units will do what you want.
I´m a Crestron guy and using Crestron NVX AV-over-IP stuff.
This works well for 80%, but as we´re doing highest quality cinema installs, we always end up doing our cinema rooms with direct HDMI-connections.
The NVX stuff is pretty expensive. What I would suggest is to have a look at eBay and get some of the previous generation DM-stuff: DM-4KZ. This doesn lossless compression up to 9Gbs and lossy compression above. The transmitters/receivers can be used as part of a complex video-distribution setup, but also as a simple point-to-point setup. So just one transmitter at one end and the receiver at the receiving end.
I´ve got a bunch of these here lying around and would ship it for very small money, but getting some off eBay (even unopened boxes) would be the more cost-effecient way instead of sending it over the pond, I guess.
This works well for 80%, but as we´re doing highest quality cinema installs, we always end up doing our cinema rooms with direct HDMI-connections.
The NVX stuff is pretty expensive. What I would suggest is to have a look at eBay and get some of the previous generation DM-stuff: DM-4KZ. This doesn lossless compression up to 9Gbs and lossy compression above. The transmitters/receivers can be used as part of a complex video-distribution setup, but also as a simple point-to-point setup. So just one transmitter at one end and the receiver at the receiving end.
I´ve got a bunch of these here lying around and would ship it for very small money, but getting some off eBay (even unopened boxes) would be the more cost-effecient way instead of sending it over the pond, I guess.
Thanks so much. Wil take a look. In the interim I ordered one of these off amazon. I’ll report back if it works.
The OREI device arrived today (Amazon link in prior post). I had briefly thought about trying to pull a fiber hdmi cable through using the cat that’s there but it’s not in a conduit and I think it’s likely to snag on something and then be left with nothing. I’m happy to report the unit works well. Passes DV and bitstream audio. I can’t notice any loss of video quality. What’s nice is that the transmitter unit has an internal hdmi splitter with an output that goes to the theater AVR. It comes with an IR blaster and receiver for control and I just programmed my Harmony. Also only one unit needs power and uses PoE to power the other. The units get quite hot but hopefully that’s within design specs. I actually had cat8 in place but I think 6a is fine. Time will tell if it remains stable but not bad for $160 to essentially add K-scape to another room.
Attachments
Just wanted to add that out of curiosity I contacted support to ask about their compression and they said it's lossless and handles the full 18gbs signal. Just to be clear this is not HDMI over IP, it's a direct connection and can't go through any switches.