Full Kaleidescape Streaming App for Apple TV

[David23]

So here is what I've been day-dreaming about today, when I should be working

The new Apple TV has gotten me very excited. I love my current Apple TV and I can't wait to put actual apps on the new one. I have a huge UV & DMA library, so I'm really excited about having a Vudu app (which supports both).

Then it got me thinking, what if Kaleidescape had a fully functioning app? What I love the most about K is it's interface and support for bonus features & scenes. The bit-for-bit blu-ray quality is nice but storage is too limiting. I have almost 300 digital movies and an Alto can only hold 100. Plus, you'd really be hard pressed to find a big quality gap between Blu-ray and Vudu HDX streaming.

So what if there was a Kaleidescape app that had all of the great K features and just streamed very high quality video? That would be amazing!! They could charge a large amount for the app or even just do a $4.99/month subscription to have access to the service. They'd probably want to do the app for free and handle the service payment outside of the App Store so that K keeps 100%, similar to how other services do it.

It's seems silly in this day and age to have thousands of duplicate and expensive local copies of movies when bandwidth is dirt cheap and everyone could be pulling from centralized storage.

Probably won't happen but one can dream. What's everyone's thoughts?

 

[cinelife]

..................Plus, you'd really be hard pressed to find a big quality gap between Blu-ray and Vudu HDX streaming

..........Probably won't happen but one can dream. What's everyone's thoughts?

With Vudu HDX (versus BR) I agree, most viewer's would find the images either the same, or close enough to not really care. I can see a difference, but it isn't bothersome, and while I prefer BR (K), the one home that doesn't have a K system substitutes Vudu on a 4K display, and it is very acceptable.

Let's see what CEDIA, and the future, bring to K. What you are asking for is certainly within the realm of possibility.




Jim

 

[JoshATX]

I agree as bandwidth keeps creeping up the storage costs for K get harder and harder to swallow for the video/audio quality benefits which are absolutely there and noticeable to those that care. One question I start to wonder is what % of k customers a focused on the highest quality experience vs the convenience. I see a lot of people still importing DVDs and such on these forums, for them I suspect it really is primarily about the convenience and experience of the interface. For me that is part of it but I'm more invested in the quality of the video/audio I get. Which makes local storage matter a lot for me.

 

[HiFiGuy1]

If K could put their user interface on an app, with the Movie List and Movie Covers and Movie Collections options, that would be huge. Have that available on a Roku 4 or the new Apple TV, and I think it'd be awesome.

They could limit access to a certain number of streamers, like Netflix, to make sure that people aren't "sharing" their K Store titles with people that shouldn't have them, and charge one monthly fee, or they could charge per device, like DirecTV and Dish and most cable companies. Easier to do a single fee and cap the number of devices, I think. I don't think most people would balk if $10-15 per month got them five streaming clients that could access their K Store content.

I don't have an UltraHD display yet, so I can't comment on that content quality. I will say that I am fine with Vudu HDX for the most part on my 60" Living Room TV, which is a Pioneer Elite PRO-151, but not as much on my projector in the theater room, where the screen is CinemaScope and 120" left to right. There, I use the M300 player almost exclusively, because the image on that screen size shows more flaws than I am willing to accept when using Vudu HDX. Also, I have tried the Dolby Atmos demo Blu-ray discs, both of them, with the same titles that are available on Vudu, and the Dolby TrueHD Atmos sound tracks on the Blu-ray are noticeably better than the DD+ version with Vudu, so that's another reason to prefer the K hardware.

Ultimately, if we had the titles/content from UV/Vudu, but with the interface from K, that would be a pretty sweet app. I think it would actually help sell K systems, too.

 

[JoshATX]

I'm not sure if it would help sell systems. If you can get the experience with a $99 roku then the only benefit is quality. Gets to be a harder sell at the price differential. To me a kscape experience that is around $2000 cost of entry but with the ability for end users to add storage at a "reasonable storage cost" would be the ticket. Storage cost is the biggest kscape limiter for me personally at the moment. Well, and movie studio deals, which as I stated in another thread I suspect would be easier for k to get with a larger user base to leverage/reference in talks with studios who really just want to sell as many movies as they can.

From a studio perspective they likely see a small user base and no way to even purchase from within the device UI itself. Sounds limiting, maybe a feature where you could subscribe to automatically buy/download movies when they come out that are of a certain genre, over a certain rotten tomatoes score or something that might make the studios feel like being on K would always lead to selling more movies. I dunno.

 

[HiFiGuy1]

First, to clarify, my suggestion would be the K app only as an addendum, or a benefit to K ownership. It would be ridiculous of me to suggest that K suddenly change their entire paradigm, and offer an independent app on Roku or Apple TV that supplants the Encore system.

The importance to studios based on installed user base vs importance/desirability of K to more users because of wider studio acceptance is kind of a chicken/egg thing. The only major left is Paramount, at this point, and I think that will be done by sometime this year. So, I think that's becoming a non-issue. If someone were waiting to buy K until there are "more studios", I think that rationale is no longer able to hold water.

I don't think anyone would disagree with the assertion that lowering the price of something makes it more accessible, but how low can the hardware go and still allow K to provide the exemplary service they currently have? Their hardware is among the best in the world regardless of category, their interface is famously unparalleled, and their support is as comprehensive and knowledgeable as it gets. That is not free or cheap, in my life's experience.

The other purchasing options you recommend are available now, aren't they? I can filter my Store page by genre, and then list in order of Rotten Tomatoes right now. I don't have unlimited funds, nor do I like every movie that has lots of tomatoes, so I personally don't want to automatically buy them all, but it could be an option for K to explore.

 

[JoshATX]

I see, that would potentially be cool and perhaps a nice second home option too. Also perhaps could eliminate me needing to use other apps when traveling to access my UV library. Keep the user in the K ecosystem so to speak.

Also when I say studio issues I refer to the lack of UV/DMA support as well, I should have clarified that. I really dislike rebuying content, I get it isn't K's fault per se but it is a real problem for their customers. It also impacts where I purchase new movies from. I end up buying Disney movies on disc which I hate because it's the only way to have it in K (but as a disc I have to deal with) and also having it digitally in all the places I need it. Similar problems with fox. I'm not willing to pay twice for the same content.

 

[HiFiGuy1]

Agreed on the rebuying thing. That's just greedy by the studios, though that doesn't seem to bother them, especially Disney. UV and DMA are, sadly, not related to each other. I am not speaking for K, but personally, I think Fox will have the UV rights on the K Store eventually. They already do on Vudu. Who knows about DMA, though I would guess no, based on the history of Disney's behavior thus far. They don't even do UV period, even though pretty much everyone else does.

I will say, though, that I have bought Star Wars several times over the years, first on VHS, S-VHS (I think), then DVD, then there's the special editions, then Blu-ray, blah, blah, blah. I guess I should just apply for credit with LucasFilm, or now Disney, and let them take a direct withdrawal. So, shamefully, I am not a very good ambassador for not re-buying on titles I really want, at least in a few instances. The studios, especially Disney, basically bet on that.

 

[JoshATX]

Haha same here on the Star Wars front. I don't actually mind paying to get a higher quality version. One of the great things with disc to digital and K's digital offers. I haven't seen this on K yet but I've seen some UHD upgrade prices on VUDU as high as $30 for movies I already own in 1080p. That is more than I paid for the movie to begin with in many if not all cases, totally agree on the studio greed deal.

 

[HiFiGuy1]

If you have that movie in DVD or BD, put it into your Alto and try it. I have found that movies that were already on my Premiere server don't always translate to Digital Offers, but I have inserted a few discs in my Alto that have resulted in an inexpensive Digital Offer for that same move that didn't offer one from the DVD copy on my server. Not sure why that is, but hey, I don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[stephen]

This might be a good option for UV only titles. Only issue is it would be streaming like you guys are talking about.

That being said that puts a lot of overhead for Kscape. Not only are they providing the servers to download the movies in full res but they would have to put in streaming servers. Doubt we want them to invest in that. We bought into this system to provide high res content in our homes.

If you want another streaming service. Just invest in the Apple Store (Movies, Music, Apps)

 

[username]

I buy movies on my Apple TV for my kids that are not available on Kaleidescape, and then weeks later they are released on Kaleidescape. Is there any way to transfer or migrate the license from Apple TV to Kaleidescape so we do not have to pay twice? It is creating a great split between and some confusion between libraries. Thanks, -Steven

 

[HiFiGuy1]

There are hundreds of movies available through UV, and Kaleidescape participates as much as they can in that ecosystem. For that reason, I don't use Apple TV except for Airplay, and I installed Roku streaming clients in my house. VUDU participates as well, and the compatible movies show up automatically in both systems, whether they were first purchased in the K Store or on VUDU.

I have seen that the K Store now has a pre-order wish list, which can get you set for upcoming releases, and VUDU has the same feature. I also try to peruse JohnJ's list on this forum for the upcoming releases, to see if there's anything I care about coming out soon. He seems to organize them two months at a time.

Here's the latest one: July/August BR releases

 

[username]

The benefit of making duplicate buys on both Apple TV and Kaleidescape of titles like Cars and Frozen is that my kids can watch them on the iPads. Are you saying that if I buy these through Vudu, the movies can be watched on both my Kscape and the kids iPads?

 

[TivoSloth]

Vudu titles can be downloaded to watch offline.

http://blog.vudu.com/?p=11313

 

[David23]

Well I started this thread one year ago and it is no longer necessary. Vudu has launched Vudu Extras, which means it meets my needs 95% (still missing audio commentaries). You can now receive the bonus features for movies that you own the UV rights to.

I feel like K really missed the boat for potential upper-middle-class owners. I can't express how disappointed I was in the launch of the Alto. I had waited forever for a new cheaper system and instead we got a more expensive system than the Cinema One.

Disappointing but frankly very happy that I didn't cave in and purchase a K system. Vudu now meets my needs even better than before and I saved myself $2,500.

 

[David23]

I feel like K really missed the boat for potential upper-middle-class owners.

Extremely sad about K closing. I was cheering for them, and desperately wanted them to release an affordable system (~$1,000) that myself and thousands of others could enjoy.

I still think a streaming app could be the solution for K going forward. It's the UI, gude data, bonus feature support, and attention to detail that makes K special. Get out of the hardware business. Charge $10/month for access to the service to bring K an ongoing revenue stream.