F1 movie

[Ddog]

Beq's can and does restore the bass but you can't do anything to fix the dynamic compression.

 

[todo]

Beq's can and does restore the bass but you can't do anything to fix the dynamic compression.

What does BEQ do exactly?

 

[Ddog]

@todo
BEQ's... bass eq are used to restore the lost bass frequencies.

 

[Bigmoviefan]

I have heard that some studios are mastering their movies to sound best on sound bars . I sure hope this is not true !

 

[DieZwei]

I have heard that some studios are mastering their movies to sound best on sound bars . I sure hope this is not true !

Studios are looking to optimize for their largest audience and that is not home theater enthusiasts with huge speaker setups. Bass reproduction is not easy and if not optimized, bass can be very unpleasant. To avoid that, studios might tend to avoid that by just filtering out the lowest frequencies.
Most common is a high-pass filter at around 25-30Hz, leading to a soundtrack that is pleasant on a soundbar, but lacks most of the fun for a serious setup.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

I’ve just watched Mad Max Furiosa and I have to say, off the back of Fury Road I was expecting a much more aggressive mix. It was actually very good very tight and controlled, just not what I was expecting which was then a bit disappointing .

I don’t think the bass or volume have been neutered, I just think they were going for something different to the first film and the issue I have with changing volumes and adding bass is there is just no way to know if that is the right or wrong or if we are just changing them to try and get everything sounding the same.

Also was it just me or is there just a random huge bass pulse in the ambush at the bullet farm scene before Furiosa goes back in?! Had my whole seat just rumbling out of nowhere, obviously I loved it!

 

[rafaelsmith]

In the case of video...there just seem to be more defined standards that everyone accepts...color accuracy can be measured and verified. Yeah HDR and DTM throws a wrench in that for sure.

With audio...considering the vast variety of speakers, processors and subs as well as no two room being the same and how big a factor room is its hard to define a standard. Personally, I like a harmon like curve with about +8db peak at around 30-40hz...then ramping down to 0db around 100hz..then flat till about 1000hz then whatever the speaker naturally does the rest of the way.

My theaters is 100% movie/tv...so no much ...so my choice of speakers was based on that...if I were into music it would have been a totally different decision and totally different calibration target.

I have my home assistant automations setup to set the MV on my receiver to a value we like(-6db) when i hit play on the K...which falls apart when something like F1, Superman 2025 comes out and that is simply too low....all the calibration and accepting things as they are is for not when the wife is complaining about sound being to low or hard to understand dialogue (this was major issue with Twisters for us).

I think those of use with average to high end sound systems are in for rough time as the industry caters more and more to the masses consuming media on tablets and soundbars. Its already become obvious that we are heading to a day when there are two choices for home theater audio....$1000-$3000 soundbars..........very few AVRS in that region...then the $20k+ niche processors.

 

[DieZwei]

In the case of video...there just seem to be more defined standards that everyone accepts...color accuracy can be measured and verified. Yeah HDR and DTM throws a wrench in that for sure.

With audio...considering the vast variety of speakers, processors and subs as well as no two room being the same and how big a factor room is its hard to define a standard. Personally, I like a harmon like curve with about +8db peak at around 30-40hz...then ramping down to 0db around 100hz..then flat till about 1000hz then whatever the speaker naturally does the rest of the way.

As mentioned in another thread: audio calibration is nothing different than video calibration.
You calibrate against a given target. The thing is just that good (=accurate) audio reproduction is much harder to achieve than good video.
You calibrate audio with a microphone at the RSP (reference seating position). The microphone gets exactly what hits your ears - a mixture of direct sound from your speakers (decoded by your processor and amplified by your amps) and the room. After a successful calibration, the sound that hits your ears at the RSP is (should) be the same that is played out by your system: you play a 85dB 1200Hz tone and you should get exactly that at your RSP. If not, there´s something wrong with your system/calibration.
If you like that is a different story and there, your personal target/house curve comes into play.

 

[rafaelsmith]

As mentioned in another thread: audio calibration is nothing different than video calibration.
You calibrate against a given target. The thing is just that good (=accurate) audio reproduction is much harder to achieve than good video.
You calibrate audio with a microphone at the RSP (reference seating position). The microphone gets exactly what hits your ears - a mixture of direct sound from your speakers (decoded by your processor and amplified by your amps) and the room. After a successful calibration, the sound that hits your ears at the RSP is (should) be the same that is played out by your system: you play a 85dB 1200Hz tone and you should get exactly that at your RSP. If not, there´s something wrong with your system/calibration.
If you like that is a different story and there, your personal target/house curve comes into play.

True, but we know that studios do not follow any standard when creating these mixes from the master. I am not even sure they all agree on what is the standard reference level.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

In the case of video...there just seem to be more defined standards that everyone accepts...color accuracy can be measured and verified. Yeah HDR and DTM throws a wrench in that for sure.

With audio...considering the vast variety of speakers, processors and subs as well as no two room being the same and how big a factor room is its hard to define a standard. Personally, I like a harmon like curve with about +8db peak at around 30-40hz...then ramping down to 0db around 100hz..then flat till about 1000hz then whatever the speaker naturally does the rest of the way.

My theaters is 100% movie/tv...so no much ...so my choice of speakers was based on that...if I were into music it would have been a totally different decision and totally different calibration target.

I have my home assistant automations setup to set the MV on my receiver to a value we like(-6db) when i hit play on the K...which falls apart when something like F1, Superman 2025 comes out and that is simply too low....all the calibration and accepting things as they are is for not when the wife is complaining about sound being to low or hard to understand dialogue (this was major issue with Twisters for us).

I think those of use with average to high end sound systems are in for rough time as the industry caters more and more to the masses consuming media on tablets and soundbars. Its already become obvious that we are heading to a day when there are two choices for home theater audio....$1000-$3000 soundbars..........very few AVRS in that region...then the $20k+ niche processors.

To be fair I wouldn’t mind a very nice soundbar in the living room because I don’t want speakers everywhere and currently I just wouldn’t even humour watching a film on the TV anymore outside of streaming because the audio is such a step down. I can understand why the soundbars are more popular for most people and they are much better quality than the cheap HTiB stuff you got before so in that sense for most people it’s actually a massive upgrade and you don’t need loads of different boxes.

As mentioned in another thread: audio calibration is nothing different than video calibration.
You calibrate against a given target. The thing is just that good (=accurate) audio reproduction is much harder to achieve than good video.
You calibrate audio with a microphone at the RSP (reference seating position). The microphone gets exactly what hits your ears - a mixture of direct sound from your speakers (decoded by your processor and amplified by your amps) and the room. After a successful calibration, the sound that hits your ears at the RSP is (should) be the same that is played out by your system: you play a 85dB 1200Hz tone and you should get exactly that at your RSP. If not, there´s something wrong with your system/calibration.
If you like that is a different story and there, your personal target/house curve comes into play.

The problem is, things can measure the same on basic microphone measurements but sound completely different so it’s much more than just measuring to fix things. Kind of like putting a projector up on a white screen in a white walled room isn’t going to give you the headline performance but it’s much easier for a layman to rectify.

Audio wise I do also think there is a lot more variation in our hearing than our sight in terms of what we do or don’t tolerate. Some people really don’t like bass or high frequency sounds, I personally don’t like really live rooms, I find it sounds too chaotic and reflective and I can’t hear as well so my room is much deader than I’m sure a lot of people would like but I never have issues with speech, even in Tenet!

 

[ahard]

True, but we know that studios do not follow any standard when creating these mixes from the master. I am not even sure they all agree on what is the standard reference level.

Several years ago, maybe 2022, Audioholics did a 2 hour interview with a sound engineer from Lucasfilms. The sound engineer said that the studios typically will master the blu-rays about 8db higher than the streaming mix. He also mentioned that home mix for animated features is mixed 5db below live action mixes. Now, this interview was several years ago and as we've seen with some recent releases, some studios may not be mixing the blu-ray/K releases at a higher db level that the streaming mixes bc they seem to sound similar.

Most recently, probably a couple of months ago, Matt Poes said that he spoke to several sound engineers from various studios and asked them is they mix home releases at 85 db or something. Matt says that he got different answers, but the consensus seemed to be 79db.

 

[rafaelsmith]

Several years ago, maybe 2022, Audioholics did a 2 hour interview with a sound engineer from Lucasfilms. The sound engineer said that the studios typically will master the blu-rays about 8db higher than the streaming mix. He also mentioned that home mix for animated features is mixed 5db below live action mixes. Now, this interview was several years ago and as we've seen with some recent releases, some studios may not be mixing the blu-ray/K releases at a higher db level that the streaming mixes bc they seem to sound similar.

Most recently, probably a couple of months ago, Matt Poes said that he spoke to several sound engineers from various studios and asked them is they mix home releases at 85 db or something. Matt says that he got different answers, but the consensus seemed to be 79db.

Yeah, I recall those interviews. I dont care if the ref is 85, 79 or whatever...I just want them all the same.

 

[DieZwei]

The problem is, things can measure the same on basic microphone measurements but sound completely different so it’s much more than just measuring to fix things.

Acctually, if you EQ speakers to a flat response (taking out their "signature sound" and control room reflexions, most speakers don´t sound that different anymore. There´s still difference in the dynamics and clarity, but the sound itself isn´t that much of a difference.

To be fair I wouldn’t mind a very nice soundbar in the living room because I don’t want speakers everywhere and currently I just wouldn’t even humour watching a film on the TV anymore outside of streaming because the audio is such a step down.

Of course that´s true for a lot of content, but I also found that a lot of TV content really has some fun mixed in. I was watching some ATV+/Netflix (Stick, Welcome to Wrexham, F1 - Drive to Survive, couple of other documentaries) stuff recently in our showroom and I was really surprised/pleased how much fun is mixed in there.

Audio wise I do also think there is a lot more variation in our hearing than our sight in terms of what we do or don’t tolerate.

My theory is, that this is because consumer projection is very limited in their capabilites. Brightness is all very similar, contrast as well, color reproduction. If you do beyond consumer projection, you also get to a point were people have different taste/perception - especially when it comes to brightness (that can´t be achieved with <3000lm projectors). So I´d say it´s not the sight per se, but the limitation in equipment. It´s a lot easier/cheaper to get a highly dynamic speaker setup than a high brightness projector.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Acctually, if you EQ speakers to a flat response (taking out their "signature sound" and control room reflexions, most speakers don´t sound that different anymore. There´s still difference in the dynamics and clarity, but the sound itself isn´t that much of a difference.

Of course that´s true for a lot of content, but I also found that a lot of TV content really has some fun mixed in. I was watching some ATV+/Netflix (Stick, Welcome to Wrexham, F1 - Drive to Survive, couple of other documentaries) stuff recently in our showroom and I was really surprised/pleased how much fun is mixed in there.

My theory is, that this is because consumer projection is very limited in their capabilites. Brightness is all very similar, contrast as well, color reproduction. If you do beyond consumer projection, you also get to a point were people have different taste/perception - especially when it comes to brightness (that can´t be achieved with <3000lm projectors). So I´d say it´s not the sight per se, but the limitation in equipment. It´s a lot easier/cheaper to get a highly dynamic speaker setup than a high brightness projector.

I have listened to a few high end systems in fully dedicated rooms (I’m sure much less than you) and whilst I would agree they sound similar I also still think they sound different enough I could pick them out. Most recently I was very curious about the Perlisten S range since it’s very popular at the moment, switching all 11 speaker and 4 subs would basicallly be a 2.5x increase on what I have now and on hearing it I realised it wasn’t worth it for me.

The main difference I heard compared to my own is they sounded further behind the screen which I didn’t really like, made it feel like the voices were in the wrong place compared to what I’m used to at least. Then again the room was smaller so maybe I should be impressed they sounded like that when closer to them!

I probably don’t take streaming seriously enough to bother firing up the room for anything like that, I think the only recent things I’ve done are the David Attenborough BBC documentaries because for some crazy reason BBC haven’t released any of the recent one on UHD so it’s the only way to get some of that back but the macroblocking is a crime to the quality of filming!

I did also watch LotR series on Amazon, very underwhelming audio so I was switching between the TV and HT. Other than the scale I don’t really feel like I’m missing much watching on the TV and it takes less effort, I’m not in a blacked out room and it costs less to run which is obviously something I think about all the time .

When you say contrast, I assume you mean ANSI contrast and not full on/off because the general LCDs and DLPs aren’t really in the same ballpark as LCoS/SXRD. But yes if you don’t have a huge room and/or don’t want to play at reference it’s pretty cheap to get very decent sound.

 

[DieZwei]

I have listened to a few high end systems in fully dedicated rooms (I’m sure much less than you) and whilst I would agree they sound similar I also still think they sound different enough I could pick them out. Most recently I was very curious about the Perlisten S range since it’s very popular at the moment, switching all 11 speaker and 4 subs would basicallly be a 2.5x increase on what I have now and on hearing it I realised it wasn’t worth it for me.

The main difference I heard compared to my own is they sounded further behind the screen which I didn’t really like, made it feel like the voices were in the wrong place compared to what I’m used to at least. Then again the room was smaller so maybe I should be impressed they sounded like that when closer to them!

Getting pretty off-topic now, but for me, that sounds more like an issue with the room treatment rather than the speakers themselves. We´ve used the Perlisten S before and I can´t confirm your observation.

I probably don’t take streaming seriously enough to bother firing up the room for anything like that

Yeah, same for me. I used to watch streaming in the living room, but as I said, I was suprised how much punch there sometimes is in content you wouldn´t expect. Not talking about "Clarke´s Farm" , but there´s definitely some stuff worth watching in the cinema.

When you say contrast, I assume you mean ANSI contrast and not full on/off because the general LCDs and DLPs aren’t really in the same ballpark as LCoS/SXRD.

Yeah, I didn´t want to go too deep into the details as it was just a general statement.

 

[OCD2]

I have listened to a few high end systems in fully dedicated rooms (I’m sure much less than you) and whilst I would agree they sound similar I also still think they sound different enough I could pick them out. Most recently I was very curious about the Perlisten S range since it’s very popular at the moment, switching all 11 speaker and 4 subs would basicallly be a 2.5x increase on what I have now and on hearing it I realised it wasn’t worth it for me.

The main difference I heard compared to my own is they sounded further behind the screen which I didn’t really like, made it feel like the voices were in the wrong place compared to what I’m used to at least. Then again the room was smaller so maybe I should be impressed they sounded like that when closer to them!

I probably don’t take streaming seriously enough to bother firing up the room for anything like that, I think the only recent things I’ve done are the David Attenborough BBC documentaries because for some crazy reason BBC haven’t released any of the recent one on UHD so it’s the only way to get some of that back but the macroblocking is a crime to the quality of filming!

I did also watch LotR series on Amazon, very underwhelming audio so I was switching between the TV and HT. Other than the scale I don’t really feel like I’m missing much watching on the TV and it takes less effort, I’m not in a blacked out room and it costs less to run which is obviously something I think about all the time .

When you say contrast, I assume you mean ANSI contrast and not full on/off because the general LCDs and DLPs aren’t really in the same ballpark as LCoS/SXRD. But yes if you don’t have a huge room and/or don’t want to play at reference it’s pretty cheap to get very decent sound.

I can't understand what you're saying - seems to be all over the place. However, it appears that the rooms you are describing need better calibrations, as the audio in a well calibrated room should never sound like the voices are in the wrong place. Not a good idea to compare different rooms unless you know how they are calibrated assuming they have been calibrated.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

It wasn’t an issue with calibration in any of the rooms, the one I’m talking about probably has better room treatment than mine and was calibrated by one of the top UK calibrators on a Trinnov. My comment was simply to say I noticed the difference between those speakers and my own in how they sounded and my perception was that they had the impression of being further back and because I’m used to my own it was noticeable.

I’m not saying there is any issue, was just my personal feeling on it and I’m sure if I started with Perlisten I’d think mine sounded closer. It would probably be “correct” to say they are more open and mine more direct but I like to talk in terms of what I’m perceiving.

 

[Nathan28]

BEQ is an awesome thing. Works flawless!