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DVD CCA appeal "settled"?

This now up on the DVD CCA website; doesn't look like we will get many gory details on the matter, but as expected it is the previously filed injunction which just has its date changed to 30th Nov 2014.

http://www.dvdcca.org/documents/dvdcca-v-kaleidescape-statement-press-release-20140206.pdf

"Under the settlement agreement, two significant actions have occurred in the California courts.

"First, on May 19, 2014, at Kaleidescape's request, the California Sixth District Court of Appeal dismissed Kaleidescape's appeal of a California trial court's 2012 judgment. The trial court had ruled thatKaleidescape's DVD playback device known as the Kaleidescape System breached the License because it used CSS to make permanent copies of DVD content, which could then be played back without any need for the actual DVD.

"Second, following return of the case to that trial court, Judge William Monahan on June 2, 2014 granted the joint request of DVD CCA and Kaleidescape to put into effect the injunction previously issued by that court to prohibit Kaleidescape from using CSS in breach of the CSS License Agreement. The injunction was made effective as of November 30, 2014, and modified to give the trial court jurisdiction to enforce the terms of the settlement agreement.

The remaining terms of the settlement agreement between DVD CCA and Kaleidescape are confidential. The effect of the settlement greement and the actions by the two California courts is to conclude the lawsuit DVDCCA brought against Kaleidescape to preserve the integrity of the CSS license agreement's anti-copying mandate."
Click to expand...
 
I think some posts in this and other forums give the impression K is struggling to find a business model and hoping the download Store is the answer, but this not correct. A fact some might find surprising is that K always had a vision that included what we are seeing now. The Store, and downloading in general, had always been part of their plan but was unsupportable by the then state of the art within this industry. Much has changed, and although there have been significant improvements in that part of the industry that allows us to deliver content online, there are still technological hurdles to overcome to make the process seamless. K's strength in this area is still their incredible user interface and the experience it creates for end-users. There may be other download and streaming services out there, but once the content arrives in the home it is a typical disc playback experience, not even close to the functionality a K systems provides.

Personally, I'm unconcerned about K's future, and will continue to buy, sell, and promote their system as the premiere movie viewing experience in this space.



Jim
 
FWIW, I think we should wait to see what Kaleidescape says before we make an opinion.

I think they have always been a niche product and I don't think anything's changed.

PS, BSG in anything but 1080P is almost a crime! LOL :)
 
I've spoken with the powers that be at Kaleidescape -- Cheena and Michael -- and I have a blog post that will be going up tomorrow with direct quotes that will answer all of your questions.

In short...they fought hard to protect existing customers and their systems and Kaleidescape will continue supporting them indefinitely.

Beyond that, they are excited that with the suit behind them, the road is now clear for more awesome innovation and to continue developing the system we have all come to know and love.

Stay tuned.... :)
John
 
I personally think this is really good news... With what seemed to have been endless legal problems now behind them, Kaleidescape should now have more time and money to devote to future product development... I for one would love to see UHD sooner, and possible even a more high end Music CD playback system.

Of course, one thing that would also be nice is lower price points because "K" is no longer wasting so much money on legal battles...



Matt
 
This raises a lot of questions... I just checked k's website and they posted an official announcement on June 2nd, but it is vague. They should post something that addresses existing owners as we all have some concerns in one way or another.

My current system and all my imports and downloads are in SD DVD. My 5 players are 4 legacy k-6000's and 1 k-300. I cannot justify spending 20k on 5 m-series player upgrades when I am happy with what I currently have. I'm a long time kaleidescape customer/user who invested 30k+ in equipment already.

What would constitute a grandfathered system? Would that be all the players + servers one currently owns as of 11/2014?

Suppose one of my legacy k-6000 players croaked, and I just wanted to replace it with another used movie player 2? Is that ok because the rest of my system as a whole is grandfathered?

What if my 'out of warranty', but 'grandfathered' server has a motherboard failure... can I still purchase a refurbed replacement server from Kaleidescape with all the same DVD importing rights and privileges as my original server?

What if I wanted to purchase a second sever to add to my existing set-up to expand my storage but it's after 11/2014... which server gets dvd importing rights? Only the old one, but not the new one?

What determines grandfathered... or do you suppose all existing registered owners themselves are grandfathered... not the equipment itself?
 
Last edited:
bedbuged said:
This raises a lot of questions... I just checked k's website and they posted an official announcement on June 2nd, but it is vague. They should post something that addresses existing owners as we all have some concerns in one way or another.

My current system and all my imports and downloads are in SD DVD. My 5 players are 4 legacy k-6000's and 1 k-300. I cannot justify spending 20k on 5 m-series player upgrades when I am happy with what I currently have. I'm a long time kaleidescape customer/user who invested 30k+ in equipment already.

What would constitute a grandfathered system? Would that be all the players + servers one currently owns as of 11/2014?

Suppose one of my legacy k-6000 players croaked, and I just wanted to replace it with another used movie player 2? Is that ok because the rest of my system as a whole is grandfathered?

What if my 'out of warranty', but 'grandfathered' server has a motherboard failure... can I still purchase a refurbed replacement server from Kaleidescape with all the same DVD importing rights and privileges as my original server?

What if I wanted to purchase a second sever to add to my existing set-up to expand my storage but it's after 11/2014... which server gets dvd importing rights? Only the old one, but not the new one?

What determines grandfathered... or do you suppose all existing registered owners themselves are grandfathered... not the equipment itself?
Click to expand...



All of these questions will be answered shortly. Like John, we have the answers, but K would like to release it's official statement on the affects of the Settlement before we comment on specifics. Suffice to say, you are fine, and you will be satisfied with the info when released. I can speak to you privately if you want the details, but will not post until K's statement is released.

Jim
 
Whew! Thanks for the information and help answering my concerns (Jim & John) I'm breathing easier now for sure. I will eventually upgrade to m-series as most others have, but the prospect of being forced to do it all at once 5 months from now kept me awake last night. Glad (but not at all surprised) to see Kaleidescape stand behind and continue to support their existing customer base.
 
I've just read John's blog post. Interesting. Not sure I fully get it though in terms of what elements of the system need to be pre-Nov'14 to allow DVD import. Is it the player, the server or both?

I'm a UK based owner with 2x 1U servers, an M700 & M300. What if I decided at some point next year to go to a single new 3U server in place of my 2x 1U - does that scupper (a) my ability to import new DVDs (b) play existing imported DVDs that I replicate across? What if my M700 dies & can't be repaired - does replacing it with a new one mean I can no longer import DVDs (& can I still play previously imported)? Would the presence of a pre-Nov'14 M300 in the system help?

Bottom line as I read it is that us, the existing user base, isn't grandfathered - our pre Nov'14 kit is, & as that dies then our functionality will ultimately die with it.

Also, & appreciate I'm in a minority on the forums, the clear split now evident between the treatment of the US clients via the Store & those of us in unsupported/less supported territories is disappointing. The scope of the UK store is pretty woeful & no basis for the building out a collection of choice movies.

I joined the K user club 18mths ago - I'd have made a different decision today had I known the intended positioning of K outside US as a Blu-Ray server proposition. Up until now my K system has the been the highlight of my home cinema system - frankly it's now leaving me feeling pretty disappointed with a slightly bitter taste.

Rgds
Simon
 
Prof Yaffle said:
Bottom line as I read it is that us, the existing user base, isn't grandfathered - our pre Nov'14 kit is, & as that dies then our functionality will ultimately die with it.
Click to expand...

The interview Q&A did answer the question about legacy system repairs and upgrades. I would guess that those words were chosen carefully.

We succeeded in maintaining our ability to provide repairs and upgrades to all of the "legacy" systems sold by Kaleidescape prior to November 30, 2014, when the injunction becomes effective.
Click to expand...

It would seem that the concern might be about spawning additional legacy systems in some way. I'll leave it up to others to speculate how, but it's doable depending on the settlement language. I would guess, however, that there are probably very few loopholes in that settlement agreement.

As for how legacy kit total numbers could actually decline, note the language again, likely chosen very carefully:

Eventually the number of Legacy systems will decline simply because dealers may pull some out and throw them away, homes will burn down, yachts will sink, and airplanes will crash or go to the boneyard.
Click to expand...

Legacy systems decline because they would actually not exist anymore. The device doesn't fail, the device is non-existent for repair/replacement after being turned in to Kaleidescape. There's likely a very particular process to be followed for a repair/replacement so that legacy system numbers don't increase. The goal seems to be status quo but not growth for legacy kit. Just consider the language used on how legacy system numbers decline - a dealer could "throw them away", they get destroyed ("burn down" and "yachts will sink" and "airplanes will crash").

We're not talking equipment failure, but instead, equipment eradication.

As for the Kaleidescape Store in foreign jurisdictions and how non-legacy systems will be accepted post-Nov 2014, that's for the market to decide. I suspect that for Prof Yaffle and others outside of the U.S., not much will be different after the transition.

Jay
 
The only odd thing here is that legacy system owners will want to keep a close eye on legacy system prices once the change is effective. If they go a little nuts on the used market because demand continues to grow but supply is stagnant, folks may need to change how they insure things. Since a fire would take your legacy system, you will want to make sure you are insured for the cost of replacing it with another legacy system, not just a new one.

And maybe I missed it, but if one has a legacy system and simply adds a new post-legacy server to their system as additional storage, will it work as additional DVD storage, too? It sounds like it will based on supporting "upgrades" to legacy systems, but I'd like to be sure.


--Donnie
 
I still think we are missing a critical element of this announcement. This only works with more studio involvement. All of this dribbling out of facts and leap of faith expected by customers is pretty sophomoric for a senior mgmt. If I switch on my server and there is an offer to upgrade 80% of my DVD collection to downloadable, I probably don't care at all. Let's get to good stuff already...
 
Simon,

If you replace your two 1U servers with a 3U server, your system would not lose its grandfathered status.

If one of your grandfathered servers fails and you have to replace it, your system would not lose its grandfathered status.

The players have no bearing on the grandfathering. Just the servers.
 
djb_rh said:
And maybe I missed it, but if one has a legacy system and simply adds a new post-legacy server to their system as additional storage, will it work as additional DVD storage, too? It sounds like it will based on supporting "upgrades" to legacy systems, but I'd like to be sure.
Click to expand...

In this scenario, the newly added server would be capable of storing imported DVDs. The system as a whole would continue to function as it does today.
 
That's good to read.... a solution probably as good as could be reasonably hoped for given the circumstances.
 
Croptop said:
In this scenario, the newly added server would be capable of storing imported DVDs. The system as a whole would continue to function as it does today.
Click to expand...

To continue this trend, are you saying the 'customer' is grandfathered, not any particular equipment in the system?

IE, I have a new C1 capable of DVD import. If I purchase a new C1 after November, you're saying the new unit would allow DVD imports as well when paired with my system?

Say a year later my original C1 gets hit by lightning with a catastrophic failure and I have to purchase another unit. Since that's replacing the original, would the system still be grandfathered?

Kevin D.
 
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