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DVD CCA appeal "settled"?

djb_rh said:
My guess based on all this is that DVDs will basically end up with the same status as Blu-Rays now.
Click to expand...

I was pretty sure it was the general opinion that the original injunction was worded in such a way that even the Vault solution would not satisfy the DVD requirements.

The bit you are looking for is point 4 - "does not make a persistent playable copy of any title".

http://www.dvdcca.org/documents/DVDCCA-v-Kaleidescape-Judgment-and-Permanent-Injunction-Order-20120308.pdf

The injunction was a whole can of worms last time it was looked at, and I believe what is happening is that this same injunction will come into effect on the 30th Nov 2014. It raised lots of questions over support and software updates to units which currently have DVD capabilities.

Anyone else notice the legal update page is missing from the Kal site, and the DVD CCA have put up a header on their site for their statement, but no statement to be seen yet?! Shoddy!

...so I guess the best you could do if you really cannot make an archive copy of a DVD using a vault would be to actually play back from the vault itself (so one title from each vault would be accessible at once).
 
Well blu-rays don't play if there is no disk in a vault or a tray so..... but then I am not a lawyers paid millions for semantic ability.

Given the upcoming debates in the UK legislature on back-up copies being permissible which if approved in the UK would potentially open up a new 'can of worms' this may be why they will become blu-ray only servers outside the US if one of the articles around is to be believed.
 
BigHat said:
While I agree that the total story remains untold, if this leads to the other studios playing ball with K I find it a great compromise. I certainly wouldn't mind adding a rare DVD to a changer if I have been able to remove 150 B_R or more discs from it simply by paying a few bucks to load the digital copy directly to the server. In other words, precisely what I do now with the two studios currently cooperating with K.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Has K ever said why there's no interface to upload home movies? If I had to guess I'd say they don't want the support nightmare of people asking why they can't load some random format used by some archaic camera and instead just feel like it's way easier if they force YOU to put it in a given format, ie. DVD or BR. And they sure don't want to try to support upload of all kinds of crazy formats.

But man, it sure would be nice if there was an easier way.


--Donnie
 
Welcome to the propitiatory world of owning Kaleidescape. At least in the IT world away from the desktop open stack and environments are now more the norm and innovation flourishes. Innovation that was originally driven by one of the biggest IT players so it didn't need to pay Microsoft licence fees so as to be able to increase profits.

Strange world - perhaps the clone system on the alternative to K thread is the next big thing for the DVD watching fraternity
 
BigHat said:
While I agree that the total story remains untold, if this leads to the other studios playing ball with K I find it a great compromise. I certainly wouldn't mind adding a rare DVD to a changer if I have been able to remove 150 B_R or more discs from it simply by paying a few bucks to load the digital copy directly to the server. In other words, precisely what I do now with the two studios currently cooperating with K.
Click to expand...


I think it is likely that one can use the other members of UV as a guide on the most likely new studios. The whole UV thing never made complete sense until now.
 
So, my big question, do we think our existing libraries will be grandfathered in? Will we have to pay a fee to access them without a disc present?
 
Luzar said:
So, my big question, do we think our existing libraries will be grandfathered in? Will we have to pay a fee to access them without a disc present?
Click to expand...



"Yes" to grandfathered, "No" to additional playback fees.:)



Jim
 
For home movies all you have to do is make a DVD or BR out of it. Besides iMovie/ iDVD theres Toast on the mac- its fairly generic but it works well. I think there are some great options for Windows too.
 
JerryL said:
For home movies all you have to do is make a DVD or BR out of it. Besides iMovie/ iDVD theres Toast on the mac- its fairly generic but it works well. I think there are some great options for Windows too.
Click to expand...

But it's just dumb to actually have to burn a disk. Macs aren't even coming with burners or optical drives at all anymore.

I don't mind outputting to that format, I'd just prefer to be able to do it as an image file and upload it.


--Donnie
 
cinelife said:
"Yes" to grandfathered, "No" to additional playback fees.:)



Jim
Click to expand...

Now that this is all but confirmed, this settlement is great news for all of us waiting (im)patiently for more studios to open up their libraries to K's digital store. I only wish it happened sooner.

Optimally the store will allow both DVD and bluray quality downloads on all titles. There are many bluray transfers out there, especially movies from before the 1990's, that are suboptimal and do not need 5 times the storage in our servers; DVD is fine. Don't get me wrong, the studios have done a fine job on the big pictures ie Gone with the Wind, but there are plenty of titles they put out on bluray that are a waste, just to hit the consumer for another sale.
 
You're right Donnie. I guess it doesn't matter to me because I edit our movies so they go into the computer. Maybe it would be nice to just have a simple drop location on the K server website- kind of like dropping pictures onto some photo websites. You could just drop the movie files. Might be nice to have a picture server too?
 
MikeG said:
Optimally the store will allow both DVD and bluray quality downloads on all titles. There are many bluray transfers out there, especially movies from before the 1990's, that are suboptimal and do not need 5 times the storage in our servers; DVD is fine. Don't get me wrong, the studios have done a fine job on the big pictures ie Gone with the Wind, but there are plenty of titles they put out on bluray that are a waste, just to hit the consumer for another sale.
Click to expand...

Is there any kind of review system that is easy to find out data on movies like this? Would be pretty killer to be able to look up a movie and find out whether or not there's any significant difference in the BR and DVD versions.


--Donnie
 
The best "review" source of bluray quality transfers is a site called:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/

They have been very accurate to my eye on picture quality. A good example was the tv series Battlestar Galatica from the early 21st century ;). Absolute loved the shows production and story line (a must watch for any scifi fan). The website gives a detail critical review of the series, so I purchased the DVD box set saving me money and server space.

The website also gives weekly release dates of new movies to bluray

Hope it helps
 
This is interesting news, but I am not as sanguine as many on this site about the prospects for Kaleidescape.

My fear is that they have been forced to take a huge gamble.

For K to succeed after November 2014, they will still need to sell their products to new customers and not just existing customers like us - after all, these new sales ultimately pay for the services (metadata, software developments etc) they provide to us all.

The big question for me is why a new customer would buy a K system after November? For instance a system bought after that date won't be able to burn DVDs, so people can't consolidate their DVD collection onto a K system (which from my perspective has always been a key selling point). And the disc vault for Blu ray discs has always been a very cumbersome compromise.

The US will have the K store. But it would have to be awesome, with a huge range of titles to gain traction. Is this possible? Maybe. And for new customers with a DVD collection, there would need to be a simple way of getting their previous DVD purchases onto their K server without having to buy the title all over again (presumably via the K store - is something like this being rolled out right now?). Can this be delivered and would it be credible? Maybe - but the outcome is very uncertain.

Outside the US, however, I suspect that K may have to abandon trying to sell systems - most countries don't have a store and the UK store, after a year of operation, disappointingly still has fewer than 500 titles. Getting these stores launched and developed sufficiently to entice new customers to buy a K system would be a huge investment. Few will just want a blu ray server with the disc vault.

For me, this development is desperately sad, as I love my K system but I have real concerns about Kaleidescape's future. Is this another case of the studios cutting off their nose to spite their face? I think so.

So RIP Kaleidescape?
 
I agreed with you at the onset. However, I am fairly confident that the deal with studios will look a lot like all the UV partners, which seems to include all but Disney and co. My other observation is that K has a pretty perfect knowledge of what owners have on their systems. So assuming one can use this as a proxy for ratio and usage of DVD vs bluray, then one hopes they made this decision with this knowledge.

My concern is that ex NA, k has issues, with no studio support. Can K live on NA alone...that is a real concern as any high end AV manufacturer will tell you, Russia, UK, South Korea, China and Germany are critical for survival these days.

I wonder now that k has removed the liability overhang, does it become a cheap and easy tech acquisition to acquire the high end of the market? What I K worth. 100mm for Walmart is nothing, but would add to their leverage with Vudu. Same with netflix or someone looking to enter the market.
 
This has an RIP feeling especially if you are not in the US and as Yetis says there is a big market out there beyond US shores. The store, who knows as whilst we can buy US DVD's and Blu-Rays from Amazon.com we can't use the US K store as we don't have a US billing address for our 'plastic' and as I said previously the UK store is more corner shop than supermarket.
Streaming requires bandwidth that not all of us are lucky enough to have so we rely on buying and storing and enjoying.
UV is interesting but having downloaded a UV rights film I had from the store to go diskless it won't play on my K system - not authorized is the message but hey it works on my $300 iPad.
Great interface as I think it was Jim who said it but at $30K Vs $0 for iTunes mmmmm!

So come on K tells us loyal customers what the settlement means as the longer the silence the greater the frustration and disillusionment we face. Like Kodak found out along with many others coming late to the market = RIP
 
The other thing I forgot to add there is no store in most countries so unless there is a real change in store access and policy it is RIP for a lot of customers.
 
Guys, if you currently own a K system, or happen to buy one before the injunction effective date (Nov.30th), the word is you have nothing to be concerned about. K will be issuing a clarifying statement soon, so stay tuned.........



Jim
 
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Thanks Jim - more info would be great.
But my point is that there will be no support for anyone if there is no Kaleidescape.
 
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