I was wondering if anyone took the plunge because of the early release
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Did early release of Avengers cause anyone to "opt in"?
- Thread starter Mr. Integration
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cinelife
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Don't worry, no one was inadvertently opted "In", and although the opting "In" message did not appear yesterday, it was a glitch that is currently being worked on and should be resolved soon, if it is not already resolved.
Jim
Jim
The Disney thing has been weighing on my mind ever since it was announced that the Premier Line people would have restrictions placed on them if they opted in. I have a lot of conflicting thoughts and concerns.
On the one hand, I don't see any reason at all to opt in. For me the drawbacks to opting in are numerous. The biggest drawback is that I don't get any physical disc. That's no problem when I'm at home playing my Kaleidescape. But if I were to happen to hop into the Suburban for a family trip, I have no way of playing any of the Disney movies for my kids. I'm also at the mercy of the prices that Disney dictates for the K Store. Even worse, what if Disney doesn't choose to offer a movie that I want on the K Store? Now I have no shot at that movie. Good luck explaining that to a seven year old daughter.
On the other hand, the most compelling argument for me to opt into the program is not opening up slots in the vault. It's the fact that we have two homes and two K systems. I really don't want to have to buy a second vault and a second physical copy of the movie from Disney. That's even worse. I could buy them once at the K Store and download them to my two systems. That's a pretty big advantage.
So, what to do? I'm really not sure right now. I'm kind of waiting to see what happens. The fact that they don't have the DMA accounts setup yet to work with anything we buy from K is a problem. The fact that they want us to pay full boat for a movie that I've already bought and is sitting in my vault isn't creating any sense of urgency either. If they decided to get the DMA going so that I could at least use iPads on those family road trips, and if they gave us some sort of upgrade deal on movies we own like all the other studios did, then I might be swayed more easily. I hope they are keeping track of what is being said on this forum, because the way it sits right now, it just seems like kind of a ripoff.
On the one hand, I don't see any reason at all to opt in. For me the drawbacks to opting in are numerous. The biggest drawback is that I don't get any physical disc. That's no problem when I'm at home playing my Kaleidescape. But if I were to happen to hop into the Suburban for a family trip, I have no way of playing any of the Disney movies for my kids. I'm also at the mercy of the prices that Disney dictates for the K Store. Even worse, what if Disney doesn't choose to offer a movie that I want on the K Store? Now I have no shot at that movie. Good luck explaining that to a seven year old daughter.
On the other hand, the most compelling argument for me to opt into the program is not opening up slots in the vault. It's the fact that we have two homes and two K systems. I really don't want to have to buy a second vault and a second physical copy of the movie from Disney. That's even worse. I could buy them once at the K Store and download them to my two systems. That's a pretty big advantage.
So, what to do? I'm really not sure right now. I'm kind of waiting to see what happens. The fact that they don't have the DMA accounts setup yet to work with anything we buy from K is a problem. The fact that they want us to pay full boat for a movie that I've already bought and is sitting in my vault isn't creating any sense of urgency either. If they decided to get the DMA going so that I could at least use iPads on those family road trips, and if they gave us some sort of upgrade deal on movies we own like all the other studios did, then I might be swayed more easily. I hope they are keeping track of what is being said on this forum, because the way it sits right now, it just seems like kind of a ripoff.
Here is a question for some of the dealers...
How does a system function with 2 servers? Could i add a second server to my system and opt it in and keep the current one as is? How does the user interface operate with 2 servers?
One thought for you cmcgehee...I was thinking the same thing and i have my AV guy trying to come up with a good way to install a cinema one or alto unit in my family cruiser (yukon xl).
How does a system function with 2 servers? Could i add a second server to my system and opt it in and keep the current one as is? How does the user interface operate with 2 servers?
One thought for you cmcgehee...I was thinking the same thing and i have my AV guy trying to come up with a good way to install a cinema one or alto unit in my family cruiser (yukon xl).
cinelife
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It's not the Server's that affect the opt-in, it's the account you create at the Store. If you have separate Store accounts for the separate Server's, then one could certainly opt-in and the other not opt-in, BUT, these Server's need to operate as separate systems, meaning they cannot be grouped in the same LAN, and you would also need separate Players for each Server as well as separate controls, etc..
So....you cannot have two Servers in the same system, and on the same Store account, and have only one opt-in without affecting the other as well.
Jim
Jim,
Here's a question for you and it's along the lines of what we talked about on the phone the other day. Could I get an Alto for the second home and have it get all of the Disney movies without affecting status on my 3U's? And if I did that, could the Alto get the movies from the other studios that I have already purchased from the K Store? Or would the account have to be the same at the K Store for all of them and therefore if I opt in for Disney under that overall umbrella account, it would apply not only to the Alto, but also to the 3U?
By the way, I love the idea of an Alto for the 3.5 hour drive to the vacation house. That would be incredible in the Suburban.
Here's a question for you and it's along the lines of what we talked about on the phone the other day. Could I get an Alto for the second home and have it get all of the Disney movies without affecting status on my 3U's? And if I did that, could the Alto get the movies from the other studios that I have already purchased from the K Store? Or would the account have to be the same at the K Store for all of them and therefore if I opt in for Disney under that overall umbrella account, it would apply not only to the Alto, but also to the 3U?
By the way, I love the idea of an Alto for the 3.5 hour drive to the vacation house. That would be incredible in the Suburban.
Yes you can, a K account supports up to 5 different systems and no it won't affect your 3U's as the Alto will be in a different system under the same account. I have 5 systems and I have done it for two of them, opting in for a pair of Cinema 1s + the Alto. I can confirm that it works, nothing has changed for my 3Us.
The only problem I see is that you would have to buy some of the films again, there is no way to duplicate imported content from your server to the Alto. You can only duplicate purchased content.
The lack of UV support does suck as does the fact of I have to give up a right that I have enjoyed for years. I viewed it more pragmatically. All new content I buy, I buy from the store if it is available. I have all the Disney catalog discs imported that I wanted. By opting in I was able to get a few titles in HD that are NOT available on Blu Ray (Mr. Hollands Opus and Splash being the most notable) and I have easy access to buy Disney movies for which I would I would never allocate a spot in the vault. There have been several releases that I have purchased twice because they were released so much earlier on digital download (Wreck it Ralph and Captain America Winter Soldier) It is clear Disney has a cold war on physical media. I guess I have waived a white flag of sorts
cinelife
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Technically, any Server/Player could be installed in a vehicle assuming proper power is available, and most importantly IMO, some design that eliminates vibration issues. But I think that's obvious.
This has been done in the past, but I cannot remember who it was that set up a full system in one of their cars. I did it briefly with a C1, linking it to a rear seat MB entertainment system, worked fine, but I was paranoid given some of the roads I encountered, and every time I hit a large bump in the road my only thought was about that C1.....not the car, nor the people in it!
Jim
This has been done in the past, but I cannot remember who it was that set up a full system in one of their cars. I did it briefly with a C1, linking it to a rear seat MB entertainment system, worked fine, but I was paranoid given some of the roads I encountered, and every time I hit a large bump in the road my only thought was about that C1.....not the car, nor the people in it!
Jim
Just to maybe reiterate, I have an Alto and a Premiere system on one K Store account, and the Disney stuff I buy does go to the Alto, while not affecting the ability to copy DVDs on the Premiere system. I did not opt in to the Disney contract. When I buy a Disney/DW/Marvel movie on the Store, it just shows as being currently unavailable for the Premiere.
This might be an interesting option for those on the fence, BTW. Instead of needing a Vault to hold the Disney content for playback on a Premiere system, one could purchase an Alto, or two Altos for that matter, and just store Disney/DW/Marvel content on it. All it would use would be an extra HDMI port on your pre-pro or receiver. Two or more of them would even offer alternative extra locations for viewing content. Just a thought.
This might be an interesting option for those on the fence, BTW. Instead of needing a Vault to hold the Disney content for playback on a Premiere system, one could purchase an Alto, or two Altos for that matter, and just store Disney/DW/Marvel content on it. All it would use would be an extra HDMI port on your pre-pro or receiver. Two or more of them would even offer alternative extra locations for viewing content. Just a thought.
Technically, any Server/Player could be installed in a vehicle assuming proper power is available, and most importantly IMO, some design that eliminates vibration issues. But I think that's obvious.
This has been done in the past, but I cannot remember who it was that set up a full system in one of their cars. I did it briefly with a C1, linking it to a rear seat MB entertainment system, worked fine, but I was paranoid given some of the roads I encountered, and every time I hit a large bump in the road my only thought was about that C1.....not the car, nor the people in it!
Jim
Though there are several arguments against them for our systems, including cost/capacity/longevity, this is one application where SSDs would be perfect. How cool would it be to have a mobile version of an Alto, with a smaller form factor and much higher resistance to physical impacts, allowable because of the use of SSDs.
Just wait until we see this ML-3D storage tech in commercial applications! It promised 100TB+ capacity per drive. Still mechanical, so not as great for mobile applications. But how about a single 3U with 1+ Petabytes! That'd hold some UHD content.
EDIT: Sorry to derail. Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
EDIT: Sorry to derail. Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
I opted in. I wanted to download it. It was really that simple. I wish their policy was different but at least Kaleidescape got us something. I figure most of the major movies will be available otherwise the Kaleidescape owners will be up in arms and they will have to work something out. I guess time will tell if this was a mistake on my end...
cinelife
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You don't need to opt in with the Alto, the Alto is already a non-disc system and is therefore already approved for all Store content, including Disney. Only "legacy" system's need to opt in to be able to get access to Disney titles.
Jim
Jim
Does anyone know the reasons for Disney forcing users to 'opt in' to download their films?
Seems odd the user is blocked from importing Disney Blu-rays when the disk is contained in the vault.
With only access to the UK store, we have to hunt for info on the Disney deal.
Seems odd the user is blocked from importing Disney Blu-rays when the disk is contained in the vault.
With only access to the UK store, we have to hunt for info on the Disney deal.
cinelife
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Yes, the short answer is that Disney has always been opposed to the K system creating a persistent copy from a physical disc. They therefore required we give up that capability with their titles in exchange for being able to download from the K Store.
As an aside, the arguments for and against being able to create a copy from the original, whether for back up, or as in K's use for a more user friendly experience, obviously depend on which side is making the argument.
Quite simply, the content owner's believe they have the right to limit the use of the content they sell, and we, the purchaser's of that content believe that when we buy it, we own it, and can do what we want with it. Obviously Disney is in the content owner's camp and they enforce the "All Rights Reserved" language found on every cover of every movie they sell.
Being a purchaser of movies, like every other K owner, I see no harm in creating a persistent copy to a closed system that is only making it easier for us to enjoy the content we purchased. As a recovering lawyer and former litigator, I understand the position of the content owners. As my other legal brethren that frequent this forum know, all of these arguments center around "ownership" and what "rights" are attached to that ownership. In property law, we refer to the "bundle of rights" that attaches to specific ownership. For example, if I purchase a house and the land it sits on in "fee simple", I'm said to own the full, or complete, bundle of rights. This allows me to do anything I want with the property, subject to existing laws. I can sell it, lease it, build onto it, tear it down, etc.. If on the other hand my ownership is somehow less than fee simple (as in Leasehold), then my bundle of rights is less than full, and there will be limits as to what I can do with the property. So...if I have the full bundle of rights and decide to lease my property, I have the right to restrict it's use by the Lessee, and if the Lessee doesn't like my terms they have the right to walk away.
Studio's take the position that THEY being the content owner's have the full bundle of rights and can therefore restrict/limit how much of that bundle they give up when they make their content available to the user's of that content. They are willing to "sell" us the content, but at the same time limit what we can do with it. This is within their legal rights, and in general but with minor exceptions, the U.S. courts have upheld those rights. There have been several laws enacted by our Congress over the years to deal with intellectual property protection, but these laws have created some unanswered questions (not unusual for Congress). It is being left up to the courts to interpret existing laws.
Although the past litigation between the DVD-CCA and K was a contracts issue, it is really these "rights" arguments that were underlying the case, and in this regard Disney believes the right to create a persistent copy from a physical disc was never granted to K, or anyone else for that matter. To be fair to Disney, all of the Studio's took that position.
We now enter a new era of content distribution, and the Studio's can see the value in distributing content without the need for a physical disc and this obviously requires that they accept the fact that digital storage of some type is necessary if you want to eliminate the need for a disc. I'm sure they would prefer "streaming" as a delivery method, but logistical realities currently prevent that from being a viable single option. So...now it's "okay" to create a copy on our hard drive systems, but that copy is coming from a digital download source and not a physical disc, obviously a limitation the Studio's can live with at this point.
Although the case with the DVD-CCA has been settled, there are likely some studio's that still disagree with the outcome, in particular allowing legacy systems to exist. In this regard, one could argue that Disney's requirement to gain access to their download content is a reflection of their disagreement with the settlement.
Jim
As an aside, the arguments for and against being able to create a copy from the original, whether for back up, or as in K's use for a more user friendly experience, obviously depend on which side is making the argument.
Quite simply, the content owner's believe they have the right to limit the use of the content they sell, and we, the purchaser's of that content believe that when we buy it, we own it, and can do what we want with it. Obviously Disney is in the content owner's camp and they enforce the "All Rights Reserved" language found on every cover of every movie they sell.
Being a purchaser of movies, like every other K owner, I see no harm in creating a persistent copy to a closed system that is only making it easier for us to enjoy the content we purchased. As a recovering lawyer and former litigator, I understand the position of the content owners. As my other legal brethren that frequent this forum know, all of these arguments center around "ownership" and what "rights" are attached to that ownership. In property law, we refer to the "bundle of rights" that attaches to specific ownership. For example, if I purchase a house and the land it sits on in "fee simple", I'm said to own the full, or complete, bundle of rights. This allows me to do anything I want with the property, subject to existing laws. I can sell it, lease it, build onto it, tear it down, etc.. If on the other hand my ownership is somehow less than fee simple (as in Leasehold), then my bundle of rights is less than full, and there will be limits as to what I can do with the property. So...if I have the full bundle of rights and decide to lease my property, I have the right to restrict it's use by the Lessee, and if the Lessee doesn't like my terms they have the right to walk away.
Studio's take the position that THEY being the content owner's have the full bundle of rights and can therefore restrict/limit how much of that bundle they give up when they make their content available to the user's of that content. They are willing to "sell" us the content, but at the same time limit what we can do with it. This is within their legal rights, and in general but with minor exceptions, the U.S. courts have upheld those rights. There have been several laws enacted by our Congress over the years to deal with intellectual property protection, but these laws have created some unanswered questions (not unusual for Congress). It is being left up to the courts to interpret existing laws.
Although the past litigation between the DVD-CCA and K was a contracts issue, it is really these "rights" arguments that were underlying the case, and in this regard Disney believes the right to create a persistent copy from a physical disc was never granted to K, or anyone else for that matter. To be fair to Disney, all of the Studio's took that position.
We now enter a new era of content distribution, and the Studio's can see the value in distributing content without the need for a physical disc and this obviously requires that they accept the fact that digital storage of some type is necessary if you want to eliminate the need for a disc. I'm sure they would prefer "streaming" as a delivery method, but logistical realities currently prevent that from being a viable single option. So...now it's "okay" to create a copy on our hard drive systems, but that copy is coming from a digital download source and not a physical disc, obviously a limitation the Studio's can live with at this point.
Although the case with the DVD-CCA has been settled, there are likely some studio's that still disagree with the outcome, in particular allowing legacy systems to exist. In this regard, one could argue that Disney's requirement to gain access to their download content is a reflection of their disagreement with the settlement.
Jim