• Thanks for visiting the Kaleidescape Owners' Forum

    This forum is for the community of Kaleidescape owners, and others interested in learning about the system, equipment, services, and the company itself.

    It is run by a group of enthusiastic Kaleidescape owners and dealers purely as a service to this community.

    This board is not affiliated in any way with Kaleidescape, Inc.
    For official technical support, product information, or customer service, please visit www.kaleidescape.com

  • You are currently in "Guest" mode and not logged in with a registered account.

    The forum is free to use and most of the forum can be used by guests who are not registered....

    ... but we strongly encourage you to register for a full account. There is no cost to register for a full account.

    Benefits of registering for a full account:

    • Participate in the discussions! You must have a registered account to make posts on the forums. You will be able to start your own thread on a topic or question, or you can reply to other threads/discussions.
    • Use the "Conversation" feature (known as "private messaging" on other forums) to communicate directly with any of the other users here.
    • Access the Files area. The "resources" area of the forum contains many "Favorite Scene" and Script files that can dramatically increase the enjoyment of your Kaleidescape system. Go directly to great scenes in your favorite movies, created by other owners, and add automation to playback of your system with Scripts.
    • You won't see this annoying notice at the top of every screen!😊

    It's easy and free to register for the forum. Just click the "Register" button in the upper right corner of this page, and follow the instructions there.

Alto video issue

N

Nabs17

Active member
Just got my Alto today and have hooked it up but am having an issue I hope someone can help with. If I hook it up directly to one of m TV's it works fine, same with a direct connection to my projector but if I connect it to my Yamaha CX-A5100 it keeps losing the video signal....constantly. I'm using HDMI and I've tried different HDMI cables, different inputs on the Yamaha but the symptom remains. The only way to fix it is to bypass the Yamaha.

Has anyone had this issue?
 
Nabs17 said:
Just got my Alto today and have hooked it up but am having an issue I hope someone can help with. If I hook it up directly to one of m TV's it works fine, same with a direct connection to my projector but if I connect it to my Yamaha CX-A5100 it keeps losing the video signal....constantly. I'm using HDMI and I've tried different HDMI cables, different inputs on the Yamaha but the symptom remains. The only way to fix it is to bypass the Yamaha.

Has anyone had this issue?
Click to expand...

A few questions:

- What TV do you have?
- What length HDMI from the Yamaha to TV?
- What resolution are you sending out of the Yamaha?
- Is there any other sources into the Yamaha, and out to TV. They work ok?
- On the info page for the Yamaha what resolution/refresh rate in and out does the yamaha have when the Alto is selected through the Yamaha?
 
I had a similar issue with a DirecTV HR44 going through a Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A2050 in my theater room recently. I tried multiple HDMI cables from the DirecTV receiver to the Yamaha, passive and active, 1m to 3m. DirecTV escalated to sending out Level 2 field techs and a supervisor, and we went through 3, or maybe it was 4, HR44 units, and couldn't get it to work via the receiver. Just like your situation, all the HR44s were fine when passing straight to the projector, which in my case is a JVC DLA-RS48.

We ended up putting the HR44 in another room, coincidentally through another AVENTAGE receiver of a slightly older vintage, and it works fine to this day. The older HR21PRO from that room was then swapped into my theater room, and it also works flawlessly. Seems like something between the HR44 and the RX-A2050.

Just this week, we installed a TiVo Mini in my same Theater room, and couldn't get video from it, either, when passing through the 2050, but again it was fine when sent directly to the projector. I replaced the RX-A2050 with a new Anthem AVM 60 last night, and didn't have time to try the TiVo Mini yet, because I got distracted watching a movie in Atmos from my Kaleidescape system. :D:D I will try to work with it today and let you know what I find.
 
Rickyj @ Kalibrate said:
A few questions:

- What TV do you have? I connected to Alto to 2 different sets. A 55" Plasma (Panasonic TC-PV55VT50 and my projector a Sony VPL VW50. Direct connect works fine on both. - What length HDMI from the Yamaha to TV? 6'. I used 2 different cables including the one supplied with the Alto. Direct connect works fine with either. Connection through the Yamaha creates the problem with either.- What resolution are you sending out of the Yamaha? 1080P
- Is there any other sources into the Yamaha, and out to TV. They work ok? Yes, Xbox One/360, PS3/PS4, Oppo BDP103D, Directv DVR. All work fine and have been.- On the info page for the Yamaha what resolution/refresh rate in and out does the yamaha have when the Alto is selected through the Yamaha?1080P@60hz
Click to expand...

Rickyj, see my answer in red.
 
HiFiGuy1 said:
I had a similar issue with a DirecTV HR44 going through a Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A2050 in my theater room recently. I tried multiple HDMI cables from the DirecTV receiver to the Yamaha, passive and active, 1m to 3m. DirecTV escalated to sending out Level 2 field techs and a supervisor, and we went through 3, or maybe it was 4, HR44 units, and couldn't get it to work via the receiver. Just like your situation, all the HR44s were fine when passing straight to the projector, which in my case is a JVC DLA-RS48.

We ended up putting the HR44 in another room, coincidentally through another AVENTAGE receiver of a slightly older vintage, and it works fine to this day. The older HR21PRO from that room was then swapped into my theater room, and it also works flawlessly. Seems like something between the HR44 and the RX-A2050.

Just this week, we installed a TiVo Mini in my same Theater room, and couldn't get video from it, either, when passing through the 2050, but again it was fine when sent directly to the projector. I replaced the RX-A2050 with a new Anthem AVM 60 last night, and didn't have time to try the TiVo Mini yet, because I got distracted watching a movie in Atmos from my Kaleidescape system. :D:D I will try to work with it today and let you know what I find.
Click to expand...

Thanks HiFi...my issue is I do get video from the Alto but it comes and goes...like someone is pulling the hdmi cable from the back of the Yamaha then plugging it back in...repeadtedly. It's like it sync then loses sync...picture for a few seconds then no picture for a few second, continually. I'm not sure what the issue is but I still have my previous Yamaha processor (CX-A5000) and I'm going to try to go through it as well as an older Onkyo receiver. I also have many other TV's in the house and will try a direct connection to them as well.
 
Nabs, you might have already tried this, but I suggest using a different, known good input on the Yamaha as another avenue for troubleshooting. Use, for example, the Oppo BDP-103 as your baseline. Set it to 1080P/60 output, lock it there, and check the picture. Switch to another source or three, and back again in between, just to verify. Then swap that cable from the back of the known good Oppo immediately to the output of the Alto. See what happens. It's just another data point, and could help in troubleshooting.

I wouldn't spend too much time, if any, trying the Alto directly to other TVs. You have successfully established that works on more than one display, even in the troublesome system in your theater. What kind of HDMI cable do you have from the preamp to the projector? How long is it?
 
Don't forget that old basic rule of only changing one variable at a time. That's the only way we can really know if a change had an effect or not. If you pull your new preamp into the mix, and also change a cable, for example, you're engaging multiple variables. Let's see if it is soluble with the current preamp, then move from there.

In my previous example with the 103, you are keeping the same projector, same cable, same preamp, same BD cable, and same input, and same resolution, while only changing the source device. That doesn't solve the problem, but gives us one more specific piece of information with which to work.
 
HiFi, I have switched the Oppo input with the Alto...using that same HDMI cable and it doesn't work. I put the Oppo on the Alto input and the Oppo works fine. The cable from the Yamaha to the projector is a Better Cables HDMI which is about 30' as my equipment is in another room BUT I connected that same cable directly to the Alto and it works fine so I'm sure that it's not a HDMI cable issue. There's some kind of disconnect between the Alto and the Yamaha. I was thinking maybe some kind of handshake issue or HDCP but I can't figure out why.
 
Rickyj, I answered one of your questions incorrectly....thought you were asking for length of HDMI from Alto to Yamaha but you were asking length of HDMI from Yamaha to projector and that is (best I can remember) is 30'. However, that is the cable I used for the direct connect to the projector which works fine.
 
Actually, you can't be sure it isn't an HDMI issue just because you did the direct test. HDMI is sort of a cumulative system. The more connections and variables you introduce, the more potential points of failure. You can have a system with two "good" HDMI cables, that both pass when used directly to a display, and still have the system fail due to the tolerances involved with multiple cables and the switching in between.

You are on the right track with the HDCP and handshaking. The 5V return, especially in longer passive cables, can be problematic.

It is important to verify, as in my previous example, that both source devices were set to the exact same output, on the same input, when viewed via the Yamaha. Ricky mentioned how to see this info, and you knew how to do it. It seems small, but nothing is unimportant.

I haven't used that particular cable. Does it pass DPL Labs' certification? I will not buy or even use a cable that hasn't passed that minimum level of quality. They have at least 10 different brands listed, so you still have plenty from which to choose. Honestly, if yours is not certified, I'd start there as a potential failure point, since it's pretty long, and cables that "pass" a signal, but are marginal, can show up with failure in other scenarios. I use a 12m Ethereal Velox cable from the preamp to the projector for that very reason. If your passive cable is basically sound, and DPL certified, you might try to insert an HDMI accelerator or HDMI signal restoration device.

Honestly, I wouldn't discount that the Yamaha could be at least part of the problem, as well. I am and have been a big supporter of Yamaha's AVENTAGE line for a few years, but there are still isolated occasions where there is no other explanation, and changing receivers or preamps has solved the problem permanently. I only sell two lines, so my other go-to is Anthem, which is why I can't give you info on other current lines, but I am sure other guys can chime in.
 
HiFi thanks for the link. It' good to see the DHMI i'm using on my Oppo listed there but I don't see the Better Cables I have from preamp to projector. Perhaps I need an active HDMI cable due to length but what I don't understand is....

Is the Alto somehow a different 1080P device than anything else I have connected? Why would it behave differently than any of my other 1080P devices? Confusing.
 
Nabs17 said:
Is the Alto somehow a different 1080P device than anything else I have connected? Why would it behave differently than any of my other 1080P devices? Confusing.
Click to expand...
An emphatic YES! Welcome to our world (Those that fight the HDMI vudu on a daily basis and attempt to charge for it).

HiFi has you on the right path, the only thing I would interject would be to ensure the new Yamaha 5100 has the most recent firmware. I have one waiting to be installed, but have yet to actually configure one in the field.
 
It's not that it's "different", necessarily. HDMI is a complex beast, much like a wife, with a certain bandwidth in which it is happy. :D Active is not a panacea, BTW. Be sure to get one that's certified, at the least. Ethereal has actually found that really good passive cables, when used with their new accelerator, work exceptionally well even on UHD @ 18 Gbps
 
Funky - Yes, I'm running the latest firmware on the 5100.

HiFi - I will replace the HDMI from 5100 to projector with one of the vendors from the DPL site. I'm leaning towards Perfect Path only because that's what I currently have connected to my Oppo right now. I'll make sure it's one of the models listed (and certified) on the DPL website and we'll see what that does.

Thanks
 
I don't want to overstep my bounds as a dealer on an enthusiast forum, and I don't mean to imply that there is only one option, but based on field experience, I can strongly recommend this Ethereal 10m Velox for your application.
 
Also, if you do go with a different cable, and it's passive (at least 24GA conductors and DPL certified), you could always add this Gigabit Accelerator to bring it in line with full UltraHD spec down the road. The thing is, though, is the Velox, with all that technology built in now, will actually be cheaper in the long run. Just wanted to make sure you knew there were options.
 
Nabs17,
In hopes of helping you find a good cable, I went back on DPL Labs' site, and looked at the Perfect Path cables you mentioned. It seems they don't have any certified cables longer than 25 ft., and none certified for 4K @ 18Gbps longer than 8 ft. I don't think any of those will work for you going forward.

If you look at the certifications, some cables pass both, but make sure that whatever cable you buy now and in the future at the very least meets the 4K @ 18G spec.

These active Velox from Ethereal work at 4K @ 18G with Deep Color up to 15m in length, which is longer than you probably need, based on your 30' (roughly 9+ meters) estimate.

They also have the MHX line of passive cables that meet 4K-18G-DC spec up to 17m, if used along with the GA-1 Gigabit adapter I mentioned previously. Again, that will cost more overall, but if you already had MHX installed, you could just get the adapter and be in good shape.

Nordost has two lines of active cables that meet 4K-18G-DC minimum spec at the length you need. The Valhalla 2 and Heimdall 2 both have lengths that would work for you. I don't know anything about these, but if you are familiar and prefer them, jump on in.

These are the only ones in the market, as of today, that meet your length requirement and are certified by DPL Labs at 4K-18Gbps-Deep Color.

Hope this helps! Maybe others will also benefit from this bit of research, as well.
 
OK, so I conducted another experiment in an effort to determine the issue.

In my equipment rack I have a 20" 1080P TV, so I connected the output of the Yamaha to the input of this 20" TV and it works fine. No matter what type of HDMI cable I use...I have active and passive ones and I used multiples and they all worked. Now the longest was 15', which was the active one. The passive ones were 6' and 12'. So I don't think there is anything wrong with:

1) The Alto
2) The Yamaha
3) The HDMI cables I've used to connect the Alto to the Yamaha.

I think the issue is with the 30' HDMI cable from the Yamaha to the projector. I've had it for a while and it reading the writing on it it's a Better Cable Silver Serpant HDMI 1.3 certified. It's not high-speed with Ethernet, ARC...nothing. I think that cable is having issues carrying the signal out (from the Yamaha) to the projector for only the Alto. However, the only thing that confuses me is I can connect that Better Cable directly to the Alto (which goes right to the projector) and it works fine but it doesn't if I go through the Yamaha. I think it's outdated and I'm going to replace it to test.

HiFi guy, I've been to that website for the Ethereal Vortex but I can't order...it seems to be only for dealers. So I think I will buy some cheap HDMI cable with, high speed, Ethernet, ARC, at least 10.2gbps certified just to see if it solves the problem. If it does, I'll replace it with one that is certified on the DPL website for both 10.2G and 18G.
 
Last edited:
Thank guys for all your help. I was able to rectify the issue this weekend. Turns out there was a handshake issue between my Yamaha and Sony projector. I installed a HDMI switch between the two and everything is working great now.

Can't tell you how happy I am because I was close to giving up on this.

I actually got the recommendation from the dealer who sold me the Alto, who got it from K...saying they have had this type of issue before with Onkyo.

Thanks again,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top