480i hdmi problem?

[cinelife]

This recently came up in discussion with another K-owner, so I decided to post for relevant responses.

Is anyone having issues getting 480i hdmi out of a K-player, into a dvdo VP30 (or any other VP), then scaled/deinter. into your display?

I'm told this is a problem.

480i hdmi from K-player into my Crystalio II, then 1080p to my Sony Ruby (VW-100) works fine, but I'm told many others have reported having a problem with 480i hdmi.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[kartono]

This recently came up in discussion with another K-owner, so I decided to post for relevant responses.

Is anyone having issues getting 480i hdmi out of a K-player, into a dvdo VP30 (or any other VP), then scaled/deinter. into your display?

I'm told this is a problem.

480i hdmi from K-player into my Crystalio II, then 1080p to my Sony Ruby (VW-100) works fine, but I'm told many others have reported having a problem with 480i hdmi.

Thanks,
Jim

Yes,my new K-player/reader K 5000 got problem when feeding its 480i hdmi output into a DVDO VP30 or Calibre VHD VP.
The resulted picture is shaking.I think it is a compatibility issue.
When I reported it to Kaleidescape people,they already know & aware of this problem
I just don't now when they can overcome this issue and fix it.

Thx,
Kartono

 

[regwood]

Funny. I use 480i over HDMI without problems. I have gone directly to my Ruby, through a VP30, Vantage HD and now a VP50. There were certain movies that the Vantage HD didn't like (2-3%). After swapping in the VP50, those same movies were able to play. I think it was how the dvds were mastered. The VP50 took an extra few moments to lock the signal on the referenced movies.

i've been 480i exclusively for about 10 months.

 

[cinelife]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Reg,
That's interesting. You may be right about the dvd authoring, or perhaps its hdmi handshake issues with other displays. Like you, I've had no problems with my CII/Ruby setup at 480i.

Jim

 

[kartono]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Reg,
That's interesting. You may be right about the dvd authoring, or perhaps its hdmi handshake issues with other displays. Like you, I've had no problems with my CII/Ruby setup at 480i.

Jim

Jim,

I think it is a handshake/compatibility issue because displaying the movies or Kaleidescape menu also have the same problem ( it blinks & there are a lot of noise / white dots all over the picture ).
Fyi my player is Movie Player 2 ( K5000 ).

Kartono

 

[cinelife]

Kartono,
Do you have the same problems if you output 1080i hdmi?

Jim

 

[kartono]

Kartono,
Do you have the same problems if you output 1080i hdmi?

Jim

Jim,

We only have problem with 480i hdmi output,the other resolutions like 1080i hdmi & the others are ok.

Kartono

 

[cinelife]

Thanks Kartono, just wanted to clarify. You are not the only person with the 480i hdmi output problem. I believe it is being looked into at K.

Jim

 

[plinck]

I cant get HDMI through a DVDO to work with my SIM2 C3x at all. It is the shakey picture issue and eventually it just goes bluescreen. It sure looks like the handshake issue. I have spoken with DVDO and K-Scape and they tell me that it is a know issue and they are working on it. I am using a movieplayer2.

 

[cinelife]

Thanks Plinck. Apparently the problem has something to do with a handshake problem between the K-player and some VP's. My Crystalio II does not have this problem but some owners of other VP's (VP-30 for one) have reported the issue.

Nice PJ BTW (Sim2).

Jim

 

[kartono]

Thanks Plinck. Apparently the problem has something to do with a handshake problem between the K-player and some VP's. My Crystalio II does not have this problem but some owners of other VP's (VP-30 for one) have reported the issue.

Nice PJ BTW (Sim2).

Jim

Jim,

I wish Kaleidescape can find & overcome the problem asap this year.
Fyi my 480i hdmi output from MP2 ( K5000) has problem with the following devices:
-DVDO VP20/30/50 - Video Processor
-Calibre VHD - Video Processor
-Cineversum CV70U - Dlp projector
-Pioneer PDP 507 - Plasma TV

I also learn that there is a color shift on the Kaleidescape hdmi output ( 480p/1080i /720p).
The picture is inferior compare to it's component output.

Kartono

 

[josh]

So help me out...

I'm looking into a scalar/switcher like DVD0 VP50 or Key Digital device... when you use a scalar, from the above thread it sounds like you're best off to output 480i from a Kplayer?? why 480i instead of 480p or 720p? Wouldn't 480p provide twice the data for each frame that 480i does?

--josh

 

[cinelife]

Kartono,
K is aware of the problems you mentioned and they are working on a fix. Not sure how long that will take.

Josh,
DVD's are encoded in an interlaced format. To output 480p requires frames to be assembled into a progressive scan format, in other words "deinterlaced." The deinterlacing can take place within the dvd player (or K-player), or it can take place somewhere else in the chain (the Projector, Television, or a dedicated Video processor). Conventional wisdom dictates the deinterlacing take place within whichever device does a better job at deinterlacing.

This is normally (but not always) a dedicated video processor, especially the newer VP's utilizing the latest chipsets from SO (HQV), Gennum's VXP, or DVDO's new VP50 (proprietary). DCDI (Far.) is also know to do a very good job at deinterlacing (I believe the K-players utilize this), but it has not undergone any major revisions in awhile.

Since most of us are taking the signal up to 1080i or 1080p, it is normally best to allow these better VP's to deinterlace the signal rather than have a player output 480p and cause the VP the extra work. The more conversions, the more likely the result will be negatively affected, hence the advice to output 480i from the player.

The problem being reported is that outputting 480i from the player over hdmi to some VP's then to the displays isn't providing a stable picture. K is working on this problem. I send 480i from my K-player (hdmi) to a Crystalio II (3300) and according to K, this is (for some reason) the only VP combo that is working correctly (there are probably others that work, but have not been reported).

If you were only using 480 (not 720/1080i/p), then you WOULD have the player output 480p.

Hope that helps.

Jim

 

[regwood]

I go (480i-HDMI) from the K => Algolith Digital Mosquito (DM) => DVDO VP50 => Sony Ruby. Works fine. It doesn't work if I take the DM out of the loop. The same was the case when I had the Calibre Vantage HD in for my VP.

 

[josh]

Thanks Jim,

I actually did not think DVDs were encoded interlaced - i thought their native format was 480p, hence the issue a few years ago when progressive-scan DVD players first came out, i had heard this was one less conversion, that it was putting out the closest thing to the native format on the disc.

Appreciate the education.

--josh

 

[cinelife]

Reg,
Kartono has a problem with the VHD (Calibre) as well. I'm starting to think the problem is with the way the handshake is being implemented in HQV and dvdo based devices. My CII (VXP based) doesn't have the problem.

Interesting that your Algolith connection in the chain appears to be assisting in the proper handshake between the K-player and the dvdo. You indicated you are hdmi into the Mosquito. I assume you are hdmi all the way to the Ruby. I'll let k-support know, if they are not already aware.

Jim

BTW, how do you like the Mosquito HDMI?

 

[regwood]

Reg,
Kartono has a problem with the VHD (Calibre) as well. I'm starting to think the problem is with the way the handshake is being implemented in HQV and dvdo based devices. My CII (VXP based) doesn't have the problem.

Interesting that your Algolith connection in the chain appears to be assisting in the proper handshake between the K-player and the dvdo. You indicated you are hdmi into the Mosquito. I assume you are hdmi all the way to the Ruby. I'll let k-support know, if they are not already aware.

Jim

BTW, how do you like the Mosquito HDMI?

Jim,
Yes, I'm HDMI all the way to the Ruby. The DM has the ability to do as much harm as good. I had hoped that it would be a "set it and forget it" type of device. I have it tuned as low as possible as a default. The DM gives you the ability to save 10 profiles. So depending on the dvd, I choose the best fit. My biggest problem is that I have so many movies, it's become a pain to think about the DM.

Reg

 

[cinelife]

Thanks Reg. I have access to the Algolith product line and was considering checking out the DM, but only for my Dish setup. I think I'll wait.

Jim

 

[cinelife]

Thanks Jim,

I actually did not think DVDs were encoded interlaced - i thought their native format was 480p, hence the issue a few years ago when progressive-scan DVD players first came out, i had heard this was one less conversion, that it was putting out the closest thing to the native format on the disc.

Appreciate the education.

--josh

Hi Josh,
Yes, that misconception has been circulating for awhile. All NTSC based signals are interlaced (otherwise older, non-progressive scan, players wouldn't work) to dvd. Although some film based material IS 480p, it is encoded to dvd as 480i. Deinterlacing that material will result in a "better" PQ (PS players). The problem comes in when scaling to HD. The less back and forth conversions that take place in getting to HD (720p/1080i/p), the better. (Simply stated).

Jim

 

[ejfiii]

Hey guys. Can you all who have tried outboard scalers give your impressions of the different units you have tried and the connections/setting you tried?

I have never tried 480i on HDMI from the movie player, but I have a client with a 1080p Marantz VP11 PJ and 1080i hdmi looks much better. Huge difference on the covers page on a 100 inch screen. If you don't know, Marantz has a VERY advanced interpretation of the Gennum scaler chip in it. We are currently running 480i component and it looks soft.

If its a good upgrade across the board to add a scaler he'd go for it. Sorry if I'm vague here, just looking for real world experience with the kscape movie player and outboard scaler.

If this post needs to be moved to its own thread, I'll do it.

Thanks all in advance.