My 4K Gap Analysis: Disc has 5x the Exclusives of K

I recently got a Kaleidescape. I was excited about it during, before, and after. I'm still happy with it. It's my favorite playback system for movies. It now feels very 20th Century to walk over to my wall, pull out an disc, open the player, set the disc in the tray, and tap the tray to close it, wait for it to load, and watch a bunch of menus and government warmings, and then get to my movie.

I also knew that 4K UHD Blu-Ray Discs would continue to have a lot of 4K exclusives clustered around catalog titles due to boutique catalog deals, while K would have its own different exclusives clustered around current releases due to studios pulling back from issuing 4K discs across all their films.

Now that I have cataloged 500 movies, not just my 150 core movies, I'm realizing that at least in my case, the gulf between the volume of 4K exclusives that each format has is much larger than I expected. It's not roughly 1:1 as it appeared from my core movies tracking, but actually 5:1. The K exclusives for me amount to just the pre-Daniel Craig James Bond movies, Office Space, and 4 current releases I would have rented. In comparison, disc 4K exclusives include special editions of The Abyss, Aliens, The Martian, and Star Trek The Motion Picture, plus any 4K version of other major movies such as Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, Conan the Barbarian, Dune (1984), Eastern Promises, The Elephant Man, The Fisher King, High Noon (May 7), The Last Starfighter, The Lighthouse, Out of Sight, Pitch Black, Point Break, Raging Bull, Red Dawn, The Seventh Seal, Silent Running, Starman, Thelma & Louise, Tremors, True Romance, War Games, The Warriors, and The Wicker Man (1973).

I point this out because in considering getting a K, I heard a lot about the advantages of the exclusives that are on the system, and that people stopped playing discs altogether. This does not cover my case. It may not cover others either. I will want to use both for the foreseeable future. And like I said, I'm fine with that. I suspect K will slowly collect some of these boutique exclusives over time, while at the same time new boutique exclusives will appear, as well as great streaming shows only going to disc like Prey and Andor. Of course, K has an advantage on new releases, with studios pulling back from 4K discs releases of mid-size and indie films.

Anyway, I raise all this on a Sunday morning because I think it's worth putting a counter-example out there of someone who most definitely will keep playing and buying discs as well. I doubt I'm alone.

You definitely sound like you're on the extreme side of the Kaleidescape vs. Disc/Digital spectrum, which I imagine we're all on. Personally, I'm sitting at about 70% K and 30% Disc (as long as I don't count 3D). I can definitely relate to the idea of "I'm keeping more discs than I expected, but I love my K!"

The below films are digitally distributed by studios K has contracts with and are available on other digital platforms.
Theoretically, K has the ability to add these to the store:

The Abyss Special Edition 4K HDR
Aliens Special Edition 4K HDR
The Martian Extended Edition 4K HDR
Star Trek The Motion Picture Director's Cut 4K HDR
Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure 4K HDR (& Bogus!)
The Elephant Man 4K HDR
Starman 4K HDR

If you haven't already, please submit a request for these titles to: movies@kaleidescape.com

Thank you, glad to know I’m not alone! What is that movies@ email address? Does K actually follow through on submitted titles? If so, I’ll submit my list. I have another section of my movies tracker which is all the movies in just HD or SD, between disc and K, that I’d like upgraded to 4K. I’ll include those as well.

The movies@kaleidescape.com email address is the official email address to submit movie requests. Although you may occasionally see K staff on these forums, this site is unofficial and K doesn’t monitor these discussions or requests. I have read that people have seen requests fulfilled. in general the only response you’ll get from that email is “Your request has been received.”

I recommend only submitting requests for movies:
A) From studios already on K. We’d all love to see <insert studio> added, but that’s much bigger than a movie request.
B) Already available on other digital stores. I check Apple (iTunes) and Fandango (Vudu). If neither of those can get it, assume K can’t get it.

Unlike those other stores, every title on the K Store means time and money from K. That knowledge caused me to prune quite a few of my own requests. Having said that, every title on the short list above is also on my list, and I think every one of those belong on the store.

Fingers crossed!

I kept my Oppo UDP in the rack for this particular reason. I almost always find myself watching the HD versions on Kscape hence upgrading on convenience but downgrading on quality (compared to the 4K discs). The HD versions are at least still serviceable. They still have a ton of the catalog films in SD only. I am not willing to downgrade that much. For those, I use the Oppo UDP or the Premiere system.

If you add a title with the Premiere system, do you also get the extras that are on the disc?

Substance, I'm definitely keeping the Oppo plugged in! I'm not sure I can watch HD when I own a 4K disc a few feet away. But to your point, I am watching more HD for the convenience of it, I watched a bit of Forbidden Planet last night.

LoveCinema, I don't think I tracked the studios when I was making the spreadsheet. I'll just send them the whole thing and see what happens.

Edgar said:

LoveCinema, I don't think I tracked the studios when I was making the spreadsheet. I'll just send them the whole thing and see what happens.

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Totally understood; I've been trying to track down info before each of my requests and it's a bit of a rabbit hole at times.

Take the Bill & Ted series. Shout Factory publishes the first two in the US, so you'd automatically think they're off the table. But, it appears MGM maintains the digital rights. However, that's not clean cut either. Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure is available on disc from Shout in the US with Dolby Vision; in the UK it's published by Studio Canal with HDR; the digital release in SDR only. Bogus Journey hasn't been published on 4K disc yet, but is available digitally in 4K SDR. Face The Music is handled on disc and digital directly by MGM, both in 4K SDR.

K should be able to update Excellent Adventure and Bogus Journey to 4K SDR, matching Face The Music and giving us the whole 4K trilogy.

ht guy said:

If you add a title with the Premiere system, do you also get the extras that are on the disc?

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The Premiere systems make bit perfect copies. Under each imported film tile, you can click on “Play Disc” which launches the disc as if it is in a regular Blu-ray player. Some discs are video bookmarked by the content team. These have “Play Movie” and ”Extras“ (with drop down menu) which allow you to start the movie or get to the extra you want immediately, similar to the digital HD downloads.

Substance said:

The Premiere systems make bit perfect copies. Under each imported film tile, you can click on “Play Disc” which launches the disc as if it is in a regular Blu-ray player. Some discs are video bookmarked by the content team. These have “Play Movie” and ”Extras“ (with drop down menu) which allow you to start the movie or get to the extra you want immediately, similar to the digital HD downloads.

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Can you please confirm that in order for this to work, you need:
A) A Premiere Movie Player (like an M Class or maybe an Alto?)
B) A Disc Vault
C) A Co-Star Switch

Is that all correct? My disc library is 3D, 4K UHD, and Blu-rays, and this would only help with that last one so I haven't looked too far into it. But, what you just describe is pretty tempting.

It is quite interesting how close the list on this thread is to my own although I could add a few to it. However, I have to ask what is the intended outcome here? I mean how far down the rabbit hole should this go. As I am sure we are all aware, some more acutely than others, it isn't just the HD/4K delta but also 4K SDR/4K HDR, 4K Non-object audio / 4K Object audio, SD/HD and the complete lack of 3D not to mention all the other alternative cuts that aren't available and to a lesser extent extra features.

Lack of the more niche/boutique labels aside there is a sizeable gap in the kaleidescape content offering one that anecdotally appears to be getting larger by the day.

LoveCinema said:

Can you please confirm that in order for this to work, you need:
A) A Premiere Movie Player (like an M Class or maybe an Alto?)
B) A Disc Vault
C) A Co-Star Switch

Is that all correct? My disc library is 3D, 4K UHD, and Blu-rays, and this would only help with that last one so I haven't looked too far into it. But, what you just describe is pretty tempting.

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Alto can only play directly from the disc in it or the Disc Vault. Limited to 4 Alto zones max. Limited to 2 Disc Vault per system. No ripping (aka importing) to HDD. Disadvantages are more wear on the optical drives and limited distributed video. For instance, if room 1 is watching a disc on Disc Vault 1, room 2-4 can not play any discs from Disc Vault 1 during that time.

A Premiere movie player alone isn’t enough, you need a Premiere server. In this configuration, all discs are imported to the Premiere server. 15 Zones can have simultaneous playback. You can have up to 10 Disc Vaults. Older units are grandfathered in for DVD imports after which you can eject the DVD. For Blu-rays, even after you import to the Premiere server, the disc needs to stay in the Disc Vault for ownership verification upon each playback (Which happens instantaneously). Premiere servers can also download HD and SD videos from the online store. So it doubles up as adding additional storage for digital movies.

Co-Star is required if you want your Premiere library to show up seamlessly in your Terra library.

A typical setup is

A) A Premiere system which consist of M class players and one or more Premiere servers (1U or 3U). The 3U server has the largest capacity with 72TB which is about 1500 Blu-ray discs.
B) One or more Disc Vaults depending on how many Blu-ray discs you intend to keep on your Premiere server. Each Vault holds 320 discs.
C) A Strato C/ Terra system.
D) A Co-Star switch with Co Star license.

No 3D or 4K disc support. You can have multi-region functionality with multiple M class players set to different regions.

With the above example setup, all movies on the Terra and Premiere servers appear in one library on TV screen. If you select a movie which resides on the Terra, the film just starts like it should on a non-Co-Star system. If you select a movie which resides on a Premiere server, Co-Star makes the switch seamlessly when the screen turns blank briefly before the film begins. This happens quick enough that it almost feels like the Strato C is actually playing the film.

I think we need a “new“ Co-Star II to integrate to Zappiti/R_Volution/Ziddoo/Dune-HD players

Terra System + Co Star + Premiere System + Co Star II + R_Volution Player One 8K would solve all issues!

We also need: several 4k Rocky movies and 4k scream 3

I suspect everyone will have a slightly different use case. As I was contemplating getting K or just getting a 4k Blu Ray player, I put together a spreadsheet of releases from the last 2 years and which of those releases appeared on K and 4K Blu ray. The reason I chose the last 2 years is bc I’m behind on watching newer releases.

What I found is that the big blockbusters are typically released in 4K on both K on 4K discs. The movies like Tar, The Menu, The Whale typically aren’t released on 4K discs in here the states. I found that it was possible to order European 4k discs for some of those movies, but those didn’t have the Dolby Atmos English tracks.

I ultimately went with K but I did get a 4K disc player as a supplement for movies such as Ticket to Paradise. K has it in 4K but their version doesn’t have the Atmos track. I will buy the 4K disc version bc it has the Atmos track, but there aren’t many examples like that when I compare the two systems.

The only downside I’ve found with K…..and I’ve only been using it for the last 3 weeks…..is that there are some releases such as Anatomy of a Fall and Ferrari aren’t available on K bc K doesn’t have a deal with the distributor.

ahard said:

I suspect everyone will have a slightly different use case. As I was contemplating getting K or just getting a 4k Blu Ray player, I put together a spreadsheet of releases from the last 2 years and which of those releases appeared on K and 4K Blu ray. The reason I chose the last 2 years is bc I’m behind on watching newer releases.

What I found is that the big blockbusters are typically released in 4K on both K on 4K discs. The movies like Tar, The Menu, The Whale typically aren’t released on 4K discs in here the states. I found that it was possible to order European 4k discs for some of those movies, but those didn’t have the Dolby Atmos English tracks.

I ultimately went with K but I did get a 4K disc player as a supplement for movies such as Ticket to Paradise. K has it in 4K but their version doesn’t have the Atmos track. I will buy the 4K disc version bc it has the Atmos track, but there aren’t many examples like that when I compare the two systems.

The only downside I’ve found with K…..and I’ve only been using it for the last 3 weeks…..is that there are some releases such as Anatomy of a Fall and Ferrari aren’t available on K bc K doesn’t have a deal with the distributor.

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I have found many titles that are only available on 4k blu ray for either the picture or sound quality. Here are couple of examples. The movie “Stagecoach” is available in 4k on 4k blu ray but only in HD on K. Oblivion and Silent Night are in Atmos on 4K blu ray but only in DTS 5.1 HD MA on K.

Credit to OP for bringing this up. I am a new owner as well and dived in thinking I would get access to nearly everything already on UHD and a lot more.

I too lament not having to access to several of the titles you mention (mostly those covered by Shout!). I bought into K thinking I could drastically cut down on my disc purchases, but I find myself buying more discs than ever just to cover down on what I’m missing in the system. I only recently upgraded to a 4K projector and it’s top of the line, so I’m trying to make sure I’ve got all my favs in the best quality.

Keep in mind that about 3 years ago the disc market was near dead. There were fewer and fewer releases each week even on Blu-ray disc. I remember weeks without any new 4K disc release. This was the result of major studios losing interest in physical media and started investing heavily into their streaming platforms.

The subsequent resurgence of physical media due to boutique labels picking up major titles was totally un expected in my opinion. For instance, prior to this resurgence, the last time Criterion released a major blockbuster was back in 1999 with Armageddon on DVD.

So for now, the boutique labels are filling the void left by the major studios. Perhaps the lack of interest in physical media by the major studios is the sole reason why they are now willing to license their long time money grabbing assets to third party. The problem is we don’t know for how long this will continue. These license deals expire. The streaming market is struggling for many of the platforms. I doubt the big studios will return to investing into the physical media division but they might see this licensing out hurting their streaming subscriptions.

For reference, here's my current spreadsheet on what's missing from Kaleidescape:

Edgar said:

For reference, here's my current spreadsheet on what's missing from Kaleidescape:

Titles on 4K Disc not in 4K on K	Must Own Movies	In 4K on K	In HD on K	In SD on K	N/A on K
The Abyss Special Edition	X		X
The Adventures of Baron Munchausen			X
Aliens Special Edition	X		X
Barbarella			X
Battlestar Galactica (1978)					X
Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure			X
Conan the Barbarian	X		X
Conan the Destroyer			X
Dune (1984)	X		X
Eastern Promises	X		X
Escape From New York					X
The Elephant Man	X				X
The Final Countdown					X
The Fisher King	X		X
Flash Gordon			X
For All Mankind (1989 documentary)					X
High Noon (releasing May 7)	X		X
The Last Starfighter			X
The Lighthouse			X
Lion of the Desert			X
The Magnificent Seven (1960)	X		X
The Martian Extended Edition	X		X
The Message			X
Out of Sight			X
Pitch Black			X
Point Break (1991)			X
Prey					X
Prospect					X
Raging Bull	X		X
Rashomon	X				X
Ran					X
Raw Deal			X
Red Dawn			X
Red Sonja				X
Rollerball			X
The Seventh Seal	X				X
Silent Running			X
Starman			X
Star Trek: The Motion Picture Director’s Cut	X				X
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds S1					X
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds S2					X
Star Wars: Andor S1	X				X
Star Wars: The Mandalorian S1					X
Star Wars: The Mandalorian S2					X
Thelma & Louise	X		X
Tremors			X
True Romance			X
War Games			X
The Warriors			X
The Wicker Man (1973)				X
Titles on HD Disc not in HD on K
After the Fox	X				X
Battle Beyond the Stars					X
Enemy Mine					X
Explorers					X
Firefly Series					X
First Men in the Moon	X			X
Galapagos					X
Godzilla (1954)	X				X
Hana-Bi	X				X
Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham...					X
Life on Earth (1979)					X
Mad God					X
1984					X
Rashomon	X				X
Return to Oz	X				X
Samurai Trilogy	X				X
The Seven Samurai	X				X
Titus					X
War and Peace (1965)					X
Titles on DVD not on K
Ewok Adventure Caravan of Courage (In HD on D+)					X
Ewok Adventure Battle for Endor (In HD on D+)					X
Lagaan					X
The Room					X
Titles in HD on Disc and K, not 4K on Either
Amelie	X		X
Ben-Hur (1959)	X		X
The Black Hole	X		X
Brazil	X		X
The Breakfast Club	X		X
The Chronicles of Riddick	X		X
Contact	X		X
Dances With Wolves	X		X
Fight Club	X		X
Forbidden Planet	X		X
Galaxy Quest (rumored pending 4K disc)	X		X
Gone With the Wind	X		X
Gravity (rumored pending 4K disc)	X		X
The Iron Giant	X		X
Mary Poppins	X		X
Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World	X		X
The Mission	X		X
Moulin Rouge	X		X
My Neighbor Totoro	X		X
The Sound of Music	X		X
Speed Racer	X		X
The Terminator (rumored pending 4K disc)	X		X
Tron	X		X
Tron Legacy	X		X
2010: The Year We Make Contact	X		X

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A lot of these are boutique titles.