Server upgrade advice

[rbienstock]

I have both a Terra system and a Premiere system. Both are running low on drive space I've got about 7TB of free space (out of 48TB total) on the Premiere system and 11TB of free space (out of 72TB total) on the Premiere system. All 14 slots on the Premiere system are full with eight 3TB drives and six 6TB drives. The Premiere system has over 400 Blu-ray discs on two Disc Vaults none of which are available on the Kstore and several hundred DVD titles that are also not in the Kstore. There are also over 100 HD titles bought from the store that theoretically could get deleted and moved to a Terra system. I understand that I could get new 12TB drives for my Permiere server and if I got three of those, I'd gain 21TB of storage which should last a while. I contacted Kscape support and they strongly discouraged me from getting new drives saying that "replacing three drives in a 14 year old server is not recommended, as it causes strain on the file set. Success is unlikely long term." They actually suggested getting rid of my Premiere system entirely. Doing that is a disaster in my opinion as it means losing nearly a $40K investment in hardware as well as losing access to over 600 titles that I can't get on a Terra system because they aren't in the Kstore (many of which are favorites). I really don't want to lose this system as I kind of depend on it. Is it really such a risk to try to get more capacity? I guess I could get more drive space just by moving the HD titles from the server to a Terra server, but that will probably necessitate getting more capacity on the Terra system.

Regarding the Terra system, it seems like I have two options: either get a compact 30TB Terra server or replace my 72TB server with a 120TB Terra Prime server. I don't see how getting the Terra Prime server makes sense because I only have 1GB internet speed and only one player. It would also cost more than getting three 30TB compact Terra servers (less than trade in of my current server), so getting one compact 30TB Terra server seems a lot more cost effective.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best approach?

 

[mkozlows]

Are you really locked in to using Kscape for your disc rips? If those were out into a less proprietary (and therefore cheaper) system, it'd free you up to keep the Kscape stuff for Kscape movies, rather than trying to limp along with the increasingly-unsupported stuff.

 

[artur9]

I will take this opportunity to beg K (again) to make a system that can replace the Premiere's ability to store content not available on the K-store.

Even just a disc carousel like the DV700 that can catalog and access movies via the K UI would be a step in the right direction, imo.

 

[LoveCinema]

I will take this opportunity to beg K (again) to make a system that can replace the Premiere's ability to store content not available on the K-store.

Even just a disc carousel like the DV700 that can catalog and access movies via the K UI would be a step in the right direction, imo.

You’re speaking of the functionality that got K nearly sued out of existence? The decade-long lawsuit that ended in a settlement with K agreeing not to store disc data again and move fully to digital sales?

Taking discs out of the equation, the digital media player market is pretty brutal with thin margins and companies struggling to stay afloat (see Zappitti, Dune, etc.). It sucks that we can’t truly get away from discs (yet) but there are other companies filling this gap better than K.

 

[artur9]

You’re speaking of the functionality that got K nearly sued out of existence? The decade-long lawsuit that ended in a settlement with K agreeing not to store disc data again and move fully to digital sales?

Taking discs out of the equation, the digital media player market is pretty brutal with thin margins and companies struggling to stay afloat (see Zappitti, Dune, etc.). It sucks that we can’t truly get away from discs (yet) but there are other companies filling this gap better than K.

There's that.

I don't want them to rip discs (that can be done with other appliances) just provide a carousel to store discs that can be accessed via the K UI.

 

[JonProphet]

I'm curious as to what are some of the top movies that you are concerned about losing that is from a disc rip? Or is it an economic situation where you don't want to pay the D2D upgrade to the newer Terra System K-Store?

I'm fairly new to K-Scape ecosystem, but I'm assuming that the Terra/Terra Prime servers can't move movies from older systems to the newer server hardware. Is that correct?

 

[artur9]

I'm curious as to what are some of the top movies that you are concerned about losing that is from a disc rip? Or is it an economic situation where you don't want to pay the D2D upgrade to the newer Terra System K-Store?....

The big gap on the K-store is any disc from Criterion so there's no D2D or any way to convert those discs to a Terra system.
Another big gap are the Japanese Godzilla movies from Toho (sp?).

I have roughly 50-100 discs that can't be bought from the store. Love them to be, they just aren't there. And, ofc, I only bought the discs because they are favorites to rewatch.

 

[JonProphet]

Gotcha, yeah Godzilla and foreign movies seem to have a gap. I know there is a big call for Godzilla minus one and I enjoyed that movie and would like to see it on k-scape.

As far as Critereon, I know there is a fan base of those but I never really got into that series as I didn't see the benefit of them over the traditional releases once BD and 4K of those movies were released.

 

[LoveCinema]

Unfortunately, there are huge gaps in digital libraries due to the prevalence of boutique label disc releases. These have become far more common and popular in the last few years as the physical media market has shrunken so small that studios don't focus on it. Take a look at this page over on Blu-ray.com:

4K Ultra HD Release Dates, 4K Ultra HD Release Calendar

www.blu-ray.com

Those are 4K UHD Blu-rays releasing in the US broken down by month. In general, ~20% of those titles will be available digitally. Then there's titles where the studio provides different assets on Disc vs. Digital (missing HDR, missing Atmos, etc.). Finally, there's the additional titles which will be available digitally but K won't get.

As far as title selection goes, the K Store has what I would call a "Walmart Buyers" list of offerings. Could you fulfill all of your movie/disc needs shopping at Walmart? The K Store will work for you. Like to pick up titles from companies like Arrow, Shout, Criterion, Severin, Vinegar Syndrome, Second Sight, Kino Lorber, and others? You're going to keep buying discs.

 

[mkozlows]

As far as Critereon, I know there is a fan base of those but I never really got into that series as I didn't see the benefit of them over the traditional releases once BD and 4K of those movies were released.

Most of their movies are ones that don't have "traditional releases" in the US. Janus Films is their sister company, so anything that they have the rights to is only going to appear under Criterion's auspices here. If you want Bergman, Truffaut, Kurosawa, Fellini, you're mostly looking at Criterion.

Not coincidentally, Kscape's selection is humiliatingly bad on this front -- no serious cinephile could possibly be happy without a disc player (or an Apple TV if they're not picky about picture/sound quality, but I assume that anyone with a Kscape is).

 

[JonProphet]

Most of their movies are ones that don't have "traditional releases" in the US. Janus Films is their sister company, so anything that they have the rights to is only going to appear under Criterion's auspices here. If you want Bergman, Truffaut, Kurosawa, Fellini, you're mostly looking at Criterion.

Not coincidentally, Kscape's selection is humiliatingly bad on this front -- no serious cinephile could possibly be happy without a disc player (or an Apple TV if they're not picky about picture/sound quality, but I assume that anyone with a Kscape is).

lol, I must be lumped in with the Wal-mart crowd and now I have a serious complex........

I'm more into US release movies. I always associated criterion with movies like Star Wars, the multitude of Blade Runner releases, etc. My taste aren't exotic or into foreign films. Familiar with them but have very little interest. I can't imagine K would dedicate resources for films that may or may not have wide appeal.

I'd almost like to see a poll on the topic.

 

[rbienstock]

Are you really locked in to using Kscape for your disc rips? If those were out into a less proprietary (and therefore cheaper) system, it'd free you up to keep the Kscape stuff for Kscape movies, rather than trying to limp along with the increasingly-unsupported stuff.

Actually, I'm not. I already have an alternative that I use for 4K titles that aren't in the Kstore and for music Blu-ray disks and MKV downloads from Immersive Audio Album and Headphone Dust. I have a Zidoo Z9X 8K player as the endpoint for these titles which are stored on a NAS. I could, in theory, rip all the disc based content currently stored on my Premiere system to the NAS but I really dread the chore of having to rip over 800 Blu-ray and DVD discs.

 

[rbienstock]

The big gap on the K-store is any disc from Criterion so there's no D2D or any way to convert those discs to a Terra system.
Another big gap are the Japanese Godzilla movies from Toho (sp?).

I'm in exactly the same boat as you. I have over 100 Criterion titles in my Premiere system.

 

[rbienstock]

I'm fairly new to K-Scape ecosystem, but I'm assuming that the Terra/Terra Prime servers can't move movies from older systems to the newer server hardware. Is that correct?

You can't move the titles directly but if you have HD or DVD resolution content from the Kstore on a Premiere system, you can delete it from that system and re-download it to a Terra server. But since the Terra system is limited to to Kstore downloads, you're not able to move any of those.

 

[JonProphet]

You can't move the titles directly but if you have HD or DVD resolution content from the Kstore on a Premiere system, you can delete it from that system and re-download it to a Terra server. But since the Terra system is limited to to Kstore downloads, you're not able to move any of those.

THat's what I thought. Those rips, or discs in a old piece of hardware are locked over there. If it isn't available in the k-store, you are SOL and going back to the NAS/rip route. Is that a fair statement?

 

[rbienstock]

I don't want them to rip discs (that can be done with other appliances) just provide a carousel to store discs that can be accessed via the K UI.

I've wondered about this. If I go into component settings on my Terra system and select "Add Component" I'm given the option to add both of my Disc Vaults that are currently connected to my Premiere system to the Terra system. Since I wasn't sure how that would affect my systems, I never tried that. But if I could just play the discs through the Terra without ripping, that would be a perfect solution.

 

[rbienstock]

THat's what I thought. Those rips, or discs in a old piece of hardware are locked over there. If it isn't available in the k-store, you are SOL and going back to the NAS/rip route. Is that a fair statement?

Exactly.

 

[andy]

I understand that I could get new 12TB drives for my Permiere server and if I got three of those, I'd gain 21TB of storage

It may be a moot point, but I wanted to point out that adding 3 x 12TB drives to your existing server would only gain you 15TB of usable storage, taking it from 48TB to 63TB. Some of the additional capacity would be needed to increase the RAID-K parity allocation and maintain a 12TB hot spare.

I also strongly agree with K Support’s recommendation. Accomplishing this would require putting a 14-year-old file system through three separate degraded rebuilds, with the risk of losing the entire file system if any one of those failed.

Andy

 

[artur9]

I've wondered about this. If I go into component settings on my Terra system and select "Add Component" I'm given the option to add both of my Disc Vaults that are currently connected to my Premiere system to the Terra system. Since I wasn't sure how that would affect my systems, I never tried that. But if I could just play the discs through the Terra without ripping, that would be a perfect solution.

I'm no expert here but I think you can do that with a CoStar. It depends on whether you have a Kaleidescape disc player of some sort (M500, M700, Alto).

If your vaults are M700 and not DV700 I think you still need an M500?

I'd reach out to one of the Kaleidescape ppl here or your dealer.

 

[rbienstock]

It may be a moot point, but I wanted to point out that adding 3 x 12TB drives to your existing server would only gain you 15TB of usable storage, taking it from 48TB to 63TB. Some of the additional capacity would be needed to increase the RAID-K parity allocation and maintain a 12TB hot spare

I'm not sure that I understand your math. Right now, I have eight 3TB drives and six 6TB drives one of which is the hot spare. If I remove three of the 3TB drives, I'd lose 9TB of capacity. If I then add three 12TB drives, one of those drives would become the hot spare but the other two would come online and the 6TB drive that is currently the hot spare would come online for storage for a net increase of 21TB or so (24TB+6TB-9TB=21TB). Am I missing something?