Zappiti - yay or nay?

[DmitryB]

I've seen some people mention that they use a Zappiti player in addition to Kaleidescape. Are people generally happy with it? I'm trying to figure out how it actually works too. Zappiti does not have a disc drive in it, right? So if you back up a 4K disc on your computer, how does it get to the Zappiti player/drive? And Zappiti has to be connected to your AV receiver, correct?

Thanks in advance!

 

[todo]

I recently installed Dune for my 3D Movies... works Awesome

 

[DmitryB]

I recently installed Dune for my 3D Movies... works Awesome

One thing I'm trying to figure out is where is the media stored? On the Zappiti or on a separate hard drive? If the former - does the media get copied to Zappiti from a flash-drive or something similar? And if the latter - how does the media get to Zappiti and then to your projector?

 

[alexbeans]

I've seen some people mention that they use a Zappiti player in addition to Kaleidescape. Are people generally happy with it? I'm trying to figure out how it actually works too. Zappiti does not have a disc drive in it, right? So if you back up a 4K disc on your computer, how does it get to the Zappiti player/drive? And Zappiti has to be connected to your AV receiver, correct?

Thanks in advance!

It may be a cardinal sin in this forum, but I kind of like Zappiti more. You will have to use a third party software and a computer with a 4k read/write disk drive to rip the movie into a 1:1 conversion. 4k ripping is a bit more difficult than ripping 1080p Blu-rays because of all these copy-protections. I have no problem ripping 99% of my Blu-rays but I probably could only rip about 80% of the 4k's. I get frustrated when I was able to rip Godfather 2 and 3 without a hitch but then have problem with Godfather 1. Or when I bought the complete 4k set of Game of Thrones only to have issues with the ripping.
Which was why I went with K. It's K's high prices i movies and Terra storage the reason I didn't switch completely to K. The quality between K and Zappiti is the same. 4k disks usually doesn't come with Bonus Features except when you load the Blu-ray version. So same as K since the movies usually lack special features.
Zappiti points to you server so if you have a NAS system like me, storage space is affordable. Hard-drives can be purchase at $462 for a 20TB, but I would opt for the 16TB for $299. And use my RAID to expand my volume. So let's say you have a 100TB storage, it would cost you about $1900 for the hard drives and about $700 for a Synology Diskstation. It's much more reasonable than $25k for a 88TB Terra Storage.
Physical movies are cheaper than movies purchased from the K store.
In terms of software and User Interface, PLEX blows both K and Zappiti. But because they are a software company, they are limited by the hardware their app resides in. And PLEX doesn't read my 4k rips very well.

 

[alexbeans]

I will do a breakdown comparison based on what I have:
A. Software (User Interface)
1. PLEX - hands down the best. Users pay a subscription fee which in turn help staff software developers to innovate. I have a Lifetime Pass. The cons is the Transcoding. If you have a slow computer or are running multiple tasks in that computer, then you may experience buffering problems with your 1080p+ rips.
2. Kaleidescape - Previously it was the gold standard. But after years of neglect, I can't say that it's the best anymore. I have a very small catalog so it's fine for my current need.
3. Zappiti - User interface is rather clunky and seems very dated. It is serviceable.

B. Hardware
1. Kaleidescape - I can't tell you how much I love the build quality of K. Even though the K Strato-C costs 3-5 times more than the Zappiti, I would choose K over Zappiti. For $4k, it is priced reasonable for what you are getting. I know it is still high. But at a one time cost you get a very premium product.
2. Zappiti - I didn't go for the premium model (Zappiti Signature - $3k) and went for the Zappiti Neo for $1k. I like it! The build quality is very similar to what you would expect from a high-end Blu-ray player (without the optical drive). I couple this with a few Zappiti Mini across the rooms. The mini (at $250 and no longer supported) is very cheap in build. Instead of mini's, I would recommend buying a Neo for each room you want it in. I own two mini's so I decided to keep them until they break down. You can download the PLEX app in the Zappiti.

C. Eco-system
There's no need to do a comparison because only K has an ecosystem. The pro is that everything just work and you don't have to deal with the DIY hassle. The con is that if K goes out of business, then you have no options than to download all your movie content into your Terra Server or kiss your purchases good-bye. The switch-over cost is lower for the other two. If Zappiti goes out of business, then you can buy one of the other alternatives such as Zidoo. The only headache is to scan your library again and organize your movies from scratch. But your movie files are still in your NAS server.

D. Data Crash
If your hard-drive fails, you can re-download them with K. For the others, if you have a RAID system, you can replace one-disk at a time when one hard-drive fail. But if you are rebuilding your NAS volume and you experience a power-surge, you run the risk of losing everything! It happened to me so I have to make another back-up and store them somewhere safe. Cloud storage is just to expensive for me to make that commitment. Especially when you have over 200TB of storage.

E. Price -
1. Zappiti - It wins on this. If the unit breaks or if there's a newer unit, I probably wouldn't hesitate and replace it after I feel that I got enough usage from it.
2. Kaleidescape - K can actually overtake Zappiti on this. Since the newer Strato-C can download 4k movies in 10 minutes, there's no need to buy Terra storage. The only problem is that with the current UI, you cannot view all your purchases in your Strato-C. You have to download the movies into your Terra first in order to view your purchases. If K can solve this, then the value proposition increases. But right now we are hearing that K doesn't make money from movies but with hardware. But very few people are willing to spend $5k for a 6TB Terra or $25k for a 88TB Terra. So I don't really know how much hardware sales K is generating. If a 6TB internal hard drive costs $100-150, I wouldn't bat an eye and pay 3-4 times more for K's storage. But we don't really know the actual cost to make a Terra storage unit. So $1k for a 6TB storage may be their at-cost value and why they need to charge $5k as MSRP.

 

[alexbeans]

One thing I'm trying to figure out is where is the media stored? On the Zappiti or on a separate hard drive? If the former - does the media get copied to Zappiti from a flash-drive or something similar? And if the latter - how does the media get to Zappiti and then to your projector?

You can plug in your external hard drive directly to the Zappiti player. Or if you have a lot of content, I connect my Zappiti with my NAS server. Ripping movies violate certain copy-protection laws. But I buy all my movies and I never share them. I only do so because that's the only way I can sort through my collection rather than spending days going through my thousands of physical media to find the movie I am looking for. You would connect your Zappiti player to your AV Receiver and your AVR is connected to your projector.

 

[DmitryB]

alexbeans, thanks for all the info! I live in a studio apartment, so there is just going to be the one player. And Neo is the one I was considering. I do love Kaleidescape, and my interest is in backing up some 4K discs that I doubt will be making their way to the K-Store (like the full Redux version of Apocalypse Now, for example.) I'm really only thinking about Zappiti as a companion to K. I think Neo comes with a single drive (so let's say 16TBs internal.) Generally I'm not concerned about additional storage space, that can be gotten for reasonable prices. Would the external drive be connected to the Neo wirelessly or wired? (My computer and my entertainment center are on opposite sides of the room, so I'd either have to keep moving the external drive or run a lengthy cable around the room.)

Also I've used MakeMKV before (I use a Mac computer) and am familiar with that software and have found it to be quite reliable.

 

[alexbeans]

You can plug in your external hard drive directly to the Zappiti player. Or if you have a lot of content, I connect my Zappiti with my NAS server. Ripping movies violate certain copy-protection laws. But I buy all my movies and I never share them. I only do so because that's the only way I can sort through my collection rather than spending days going through my thousands of physical media to find the movie I am looking for. You would connect your Zappiti player to your AV Receiver and your AVR is connected to your projector.

alexbeans, thanks for all the info! I live in a studio apartment, so there is just going to be the one player. And Neo is the one I was considering. I do love Kaleidescape, and my interest is in backing up some 4K discs that I doubt will be making their way to the K-Store (like the full Redux version of Apocalypse Now, for example.) I'm really only thinking about Zappiti as a companion to K. I think Neo comes with a single drive (so let's say 16TBs internal.) Generally I'm not concerned about additional storage space, that can be gotten for reasonable prices. Would the external drive be connected to the Neo wirelessly or wired? (My computer and my entertainment center are on opposite sides of the room, so I'd either have to keep moving the external drive or run a lengthy cable around the room.)

Also I've used MakeMKV before (I use a Mac computer) and am familiar with that software and have found it to be quite reliable.

From their website:
● USB Ports: Conveniently connect HDDs, USB flash drives, USB card readers and other USB storage devices.

 

[alexbeans]

alexbeans, thanks for all the info! I live in a studio apartment, so there is just going to be the one player. And Neo is the one I was considering. I do love Kaleidescape, and my interest is in backing up some 4K discs that I doubt will be making their way to the K-Store (like the full Redux version of Apocalypse Now, for example.) I'm really only thinking about Zappiti as a companion to K. I think Neo comes with a single drive (so let's say 16TBs internal.) Generally I'm not concerned about additional storage space, that can be gotten for reasonable prices. Would the external drive be connected to the Neo wirelessly or wired? (My computer and my entertainment center are on opposite sides of the room, so I'd either have to keep moving the external drive or run a lengthy cable around the room.)

Also I've used MakeMKV before (I use a Mac computer) and am familiar with that software and have found it to be quite reliable.

I have faith the K will get better and that they will have more content and that costs will go down. Right now, Zappiti is a companion to my K and whenever there's a bundle sale, I click "buy" without any hesitation if it's $6.99 even if it's an "average" movie. I bought all 4 GhostBusters in the recent sale. Do I think that it's a masterpiece that's worthy of my K collection? Absolutely not. But it was cheap.

If it's $9.99, I would put some thought into it even though it's only $3 more. For movies that are $14.99, I really need to love it and see myself repeat watching.

 

[Substance]

On software I believe the point is misunderstood. I know some folks want more stats, geek controls and such but I don’t think that’s Kaleidescape’s model.

Kaleidescape is about simplicity, ease of use, and removing techno stress. It is designed to let you simply enjoy your movies. Advance settings are done in the web interface during setup by your installer. Select, play, pause and stop are all you need.

Another critical design feature is reliability. All movies are downloaded to local storage. Only hardwired connections are allowed. Kaleidescape system wants to remove the slightest chance of interruption during your movie playback.

Zappiti seems like a great machine. I looked into it before I purchased my Kaleidescape system but I couldn’t get past that stupid name.

 

[alexbeans]

On software I believe the point is misunderstood. I know some folks want more stats, geek controls and such but I don’t think that’s Kaleidescape’s model.

Kaleidescape is about simplicity, ease of use, and removing techno stress. It is designed to let you simply enjoy your movies. Advance settings are done in the web interface during setup by your installer. Select, play, pause and stop are all you need.

Another critical design feature is reliability. All movies are downloaded to local storage. Only hardwired connections are allowed. Kaleidescape system wants to remove the slightest chance of interruption during your movie playback.

Zappiti seems like a great machine. I looked into it before I purchased my Kaleidescape system but I couldn’t get past that stupid name.

With my other platform, the only geek control I do is just changing the covers and backgrounds if I didn't like the default ones. I don't have the time in my busy schedule to spec things out.

There could be some minor features to give K a little refresh. Something that Zappiti added was moving animation which was kind of cool. Not really a must-have, but it did have a cool factor.

I'm not asking for much, but the only two features I am waiting for as software improvements are:
1. Special Features on the UHD/HDR version of the movie. Take Wonder Woman for example. I would normally download the UHD/HDR version in my server. If I want to watch the special features, I need to download the entire HD version as well, taking over 50GB in space. It'll be great if we can just download the special features by themselves.
2. Select, play, pause and stop are all you need. I somewhat agree. But what I would want is a Find, Download and Delete function. Find the movie from a list of all purchased titles (not just downloaded titles in your Terra). Download into your Terra with a click of a button. Delete from your Terra with a click of a button. I have exceeded the 6TB storage in just a few months and had to start deleting my movies from the server. But by doing that, I can't really see all my purchases in the List View. My only alternative was to buy more Terra Storage. I can only justify buying it used in this Forum's Market Place.

I don't need any fancy bling to my K movie player. Reliability is important. Zappiti only allows hardwired connections for the same reason. And yes, it's a stupid name.

 

[todo]

One thing I'm trying to figure out is where is the media stored? On the Zappiti or on a separate hard drive? If the former - does the media get copied to Zappiti from a flash-drive or something similar? And if the latter - how does the media get to Zappiti and then to your projector?

The Media (My 3D Movies Ripped using DVD Fab) is sitting on a USB 3.0 Hard drive 14Tb (its like 300 bucks from Best Buy) - the drive is connected to the Dune 4K Solo USB port.
The Dune is connected to my Lumagen via HDMI and the Lumagen is connected to the Projector.
In my TV setup - The Dune is connected to my TV via HDMI.
Very simple - rest the Dune player works actually - hate to say - as good as the Kaleidescape.
You need to have the patience and 'Time' to rip your Blu Rays to the USB Hard drive.... I finished ripping my 3D Movies (I used services of a person) and don't buy many at all (as they don't get released much)... so now I have all my 3D Movies available at all times just Like my Kaleidescape movies. I can rip the few 3D movies I buy down the road using a Blu Ray Drive and DVD Fab.
You can't compare the Dune to a Kaleidescape - the Dune is a 30 dollar bottle of wine - tastes good and is drinkable all good - but the Kaleidescape is a 300 dollar Chateunuef Du Pape.

 

[DmitryB]

The Media (My 3D Movies Ripped using DVD Fab) is sitting on a USB 3.0 Hard drive 14Tb (its like 300 bucks from Best Buy) - the drive is connected to the Dune 4K Solo USB port.
The Dune is connected to my Lumagen via HDMI and the Lumagen is connected to the Projector.
In my TV setup - The Dune is connected to my TV via HDMI.
Very simple - rest the Dune player works actually - hate to say - as good as the Kaleidescape.
You need to have the patience and 'Time' to rip your Blu Rays to the USB Hard drive.... I finished ripping my 3D Movies (I used services of a person) and don't buy many at all (as they don't get released much)... so now I have all my 3D Movies available at all times just Like my Kaleidescape movies. I can rip the few 3D movies I buy down the road using a Blu Ray Drive and DVD Fab.
You can't compare the Dune to a Kaleidescape - the Dune is a 30 dollar bottle of wine - tastes good and is drinkable all good - but the Kaleidescape is a 300 dollar Chateunuef Du Pape.

This is great info. Do you need the Dune 4K Solo between the HDD and the Lumagen? Do you not use the HDD Neo has?

 

[todo]

This is great info. Do you need the Dune 4K Solo between the HDD and the Lumagen? Do you not use the HDD Neo has?

The Dune 4K Solo has a in built in Hard Drive Bay (the Dune Vision 4K does not but has a SATA port for Hard Drive) - you would need to buy the Hard SATA drive and install in the Bay or using the SATA Cable.
I chose the Easystore 14TB as the person who helped me load the my movies shipped me the movies with the Easy store Drive - which save me a ton of time.
The Dune 4K Solo is like any player (UHD Blu Ray Player like a Oppo) or like the Startos C (the drive in this case is the Terra) - it is just a player which plays data from the drive and has some streaming apps also.
The Dune's drive (USB or HD SATA) can be set as a SMB drive (very easy selection) on my local network and it shows up as a drive on the Mac like any storage will show up such as a NAS on my Network. You can even use it to store pictures/documents etc if you want to.
Once the system is on my Network in the home, I can rip a movie on my Air Mac (Make sure the drive USB or HD is formatted as NTFS or the Mac will not see it if it is connected to the MAC directly via USB - no issues what formatting is used once the drive on the network though) using the External BD Drive directly on the Hard drive (USB or internal SATA) via WIFI.
My guess is Zappiti should work the same way.

 

[DmitryB]

The Dune 4K Solo has a in built in Hard Drive Bay (the Dune Vision 4K does not but has a SATA port for Hard Drive) - you would need to buy the Hard SATA drive and install in the Bay or using the SATA Cable.
I chose the Easystore 14TB as the person who helped me load the my movies shipped me the movies with the Easy store Drive - which save me a ton of time.
The Dune 4K Solo is like any player (UHD Blu Ray Player like a Oppo) or like the Startos C (the drive in this case is the Terra) - it is just a player which plays data from the drive and has some streaming apps also.
The Dune's drive (USB or HD SATA) can be set as a SMB drive (very easy selection) on my local network and it shows up as a drive on the Mac like any storage will show up such as a NAS on my Network. You can even use it to store pictures/documents etc if you want to.
Once the system is on my Network in the home, I can rip a movie on my Air Mac (Make sure the drive USB or HD is formatted as NTFS or the Mac will not see it if it is connected to the MAC directly via USB - no issues what formatting is used once the drive on the network though) using the External BD Drive directly on the Hard drive (USB or internal SATA) via WIFI.
My guess is Zappiti should work the same way.

Oh sorry, I missed the part that you weren't using Zappiti! I just assumed it was somewhere in that chain. Ok I gotcha!

 

[alexbeans]

Oh sorry, I missed the part that you weren't using Zappiti! I just assumed it was somewhere in that chain. Ok I gotcha!

Dune = Zappiti = Zidoo. They all seem to do the same and should work the same way.

 

[JohnJ]

I'm not asking for much, but the only two features I am waiting for as software improvements are:
1. Special Features on the UHD/HDR version of the movie. Take Wonder Woman for example. I would normally download the UHD/HDR version in my server. If I want to watch the special features, I need to download the entire HD version as well, taking over 50GB in space. It'll be great if we can just download the special features by themselves.

There are more and more titles on the Store where K splits out the Supplements into separate files. This is especially true for movies with lots of extras. For new movies, I download both HD and HDR and check the what is being downloaded and delete the HD feature film file.

John

 

[alexbeans]

There are more and more titles on the Store where K splits out the Supplements into separate files. This is especially true for movies with lots of extras. For new movies, I download both HD and HDR and check the what is being downloaded and delete the HD feature film file.

John

So there's a way to keep the special features if I were to delete the HD Feature film only? When I did that, all the special features were removed.

 

[JohnJ]

It depends on the movie. Wonder Woman is one where they are not separate. I just bringing awareness to the fact that there are some titles where the supplements are separate in case there are new users that don’t know.

John

 

[Transepoch]

2. Kaleidescape - K can actually overtake Zappiti on this. Since the newer Strato-C can download 4k movies in 10 minutes, there's no need to buy Terra storage. The only problem is that with the current UI, you cannot view all your purchases in your Strato-C.

The Strato-C has no storage, it must pull from a Terra or other Encore-class storage device. It is the connected Terra that downloads quickly for viewing on the Strato-C.