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Yes, the Premiere line is ending....

cinelife

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I've been getting emails and conversations, mostly from newer owners, regarding how long I personally think Premiere line will be available and supported. I decided to answer here as well.

First, we all know the Premiere line is going away, and there will be a future point when Premiere products are no longer supported by K, and I believe that day is coming soon (based on how I track parts and component sales). The question for current owners is what to do about it. The way I see it, these are the options, jump in if you have others.....

1. Keep your current Premiere components and use until the system stops working.
2. Keep your current Premiere components and buy used spare components, and whatever parts are currently available.
3. Trade-in current Premiere components for Encore (or move to a newer 1U+ Premiere server and gain up to 5 more years of warranty).
4. Jump into Encore, pair with your Premiere (using Co-Star), and slowly replace content on your Premiere with content from the Store.
5. Sell out and move to another service (not a real option for most of us).

The changes, coming soon IMO, will force most folks to make a decision, so good to to be considering the best way to deal with it. I do know that Kaleidescape will absolutely continue to support all products covered by warranty, regardless of product line.

Jim
 
I think the real question here is how long will the systems be supported on the back end by K? By supported, I mean able to purchase store content, receive movie guide updates and the occasional bug fix. One can look to the past example of the 5U server and think that the answer might be "a good long time." Since all of the premiere servers use the same software stack, the 5U still is supported in the software sense and absent a hardware failure is still a very usable device.

But now I think we are nearing a fork in the road. The business focus is on the Encore line and the Premiere line is soon to go away. When it is said that existing under warranty components will be supported, that leaves a lot of wiggle room for pulling back end support of "out of warranty" components. Ideally we will see the continuation of back end support for the entire premiere line (since of the aforementioned software commonality has allowed it this long) for a least a few years after the last sold 1U+ server goes out of warranty. That is the best case scenario that we all hope for.
 
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My wish is that we will have parts available to maintain them ourselves.
I'm capable of the work, I just need parts.
 
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The sad truth is that we will all soon be forced to obtain content digitally. Physical media is going away. I would think that everyone should seriously be looking at any future purchases to be digital. I stopped buying disc years ago. I also converted over 600 titles to digital and got rid of my vaults. Yes, I lost some movies that were not on the store, but I think the trade off is worth it.
 
As I have said here on the forum and personally to Cheena what is needed is a data migration path to port what is on our systems to the new platforms - can you imagine if the IT companies didn't provide data storage migration services and I am sure Kaleidescape could provide this as a service!
Yes a 1U+ is an option but I would need several to hold the content currently on my 3U servers so the extra expense is prohibitive. The store is a partial option but is missing 1000's of the titles I have given I am more a 'TV Fan' and not just a 'Movie Fan' so not really a viable option and again additional cost for no real benefit.
For now it seems wise to 'stockpile' a few spare components to keep ones installed legacy base up and running for a few years longer.
 
Hi.

I have a grandfathered 1U server with 4 brand new 1TB drives, that I bought used years ago (I never ended up using it for various reasons).
I have a region A M300 and a region B M300, 2 K120? First gen cinema one and a Kvault 10.

I had initially given up on ever going the Kaleidescape route, due to factors like import costs/currency exchange etc, as I lived in Denmark.
Today I live in Texas, and suddenly Kaleidescape is far more approachable money-wise (think half the price).

But now my concern is. Should I employ these older components alongside a co-star and Encore products? Or should I sell it off and go strictly Encore?

My end goal is to keep buying discs and only occasionally use the store, plus be able to use my +600 existing BD and DVD discs of mostly 2/B region.
I know this means I would obviously need at least 2 DV700 that are either paired with the Premiere system for import, or used with the Encore for direct play.

My current player of choice is an Oppo UDP-205 and a Sony Android TV with various streaming subscriptions.
 
I went the 1U+ route, replaced some 3U's with 1U+ servers, as did several clients. This at least gives me access to my Premiere content for at least 5 years (w/2 year warranty extension). I did have to eliminate some content prior to replication, which wasn't hard to do when I looked back on some of the "watch one time" titles I had stored, but moving to the 1U+ was the right choice for me, it extended Premiere life, and reduced drive liability by moving to the 10TB (30TB) model. I was also able to replace many deleted Premiere titles with digital offers and upgrades from the Store.

I'm not concerned about Software support going forward. Kaleidescape plans to continue software support for Premiere, it's the Premiere hardware that will be discontinued, as will parts and component replacements. Premiere repairs ended several years ago, and instead K moved to the out-of-warranty replacements for defective Premiere components, but I suspect that this will also go away soon as well. When that happens, folks will be relegated to finding replacements parts online, which is likely limited to power supplies and optical drives.

In every conversation I've had with the leadership at K, it was always clear to me that K really does care about owners. They are always considering ways to better help and serve owners as they also continue the transition away from disc based media, but being a business, this has to be done within limits of the business plan and financial considerations.


Jim
 
Hi Jim.

What is meant by the 1U+ server?

Also, it boggels me why Kaleidescape, when they no longer want to support a system, doesn't just let you use off the shelf drives as replacement. After all, that's what they are, even if they have custom firmware uploaded to them (I suspect they really only change the drive ID in the firmware, and that's it).

The entirely separate route for me would be to just go Plex, and then buy an Acronova Nimbie to do bulk ripping, which will be substantially cheaper and arguably more flexible, albeit it slightly less polished.
 
Also, if I wanted to get rid of my Premier line stuff, are there any trade-in options to go from what I have already to Terra/Strato?
 
Discontinuing the manufacturing and support of all of the custom hardware that makes up the Premiere line (servers, vaults, m-class players, etc) is understandable. But if K really cares for its customers, then they should keep the replacement hard drives available for as long as they support the Premiere software on the back end. For what they charge for the drives, there has to still be a business case for buying 6tb Western Digital Purple drives in bulk, having an intern mount them in the enclosure, plug them into the special machine for a minute to bless them and then shipping them out.

But if not, the Acronova Nimbie and Plex starts to look like a better investment to maintain the functionality we all desire.
 
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever attempted to just throw a bunch of brand new drives in the enclosures from K?
I mean, I could potentially do it, since I have a, to me, brand new 1U with 4 drives I could just remove, and 4 brand new 6TB WD Reds kicking around. So it would be a fairly easy and risk free attempt.
I don't suspect it'll work, but it would be interesting to see.
 
It will not work. No file system installed on drives.

Jim
 
@sirgadget, the 1U+ is the final Server in the Premiere Line. It is the only Premiere Server still being sold new from Kaleidescape.


Jim
 
Have you tried it? Or is it an assumption?
Of it's just the file system that is the issue, that can easily be cloned from another initialized disc.

So, is there anything special about it since the plus designation? Or is it just a regular 1U?
 
Jim, thank you for laying out the options so well. To evaluate what would be best for my needs, I did the following:
  1. I have a 3U with 70TB of space.
  2. Went to my Movies tab and downloaded my list of movies as an Excel sheet. The result was 1756 Movies
  3. Sorted the movies by type, and found 177 BDs and 401 DVDs not available for disc to digital. I went the Movie store to find out how many and what format my movies were and subtracted to get the a177 and 401.
  4. Multiplied my BDs by 30 GB and DVDs by 7GB to arrive at 9.2 TB of storage needed
This then tells me a single 1U+ and a costar could easily replace my not in store movies and combined with the purchase of a 12 TB Strato and 2 40TB Terra would be needed to hold my existing movies with room to add more.

Any idea what a 30TB 1U+ is selling for these days? With that info I could figure out what the cost would be to stay in the K system.

The Premier system makes analysis very easy and is truly a great system. Upon coming to terms with its eventual demise I went through the normal stages of death:
  1. Denial: K would never end the Premier line, they invested enormous time, energy and money to maintain the Premier line, they would not shoot the horse that got them here!
  2. Anger: This is not what I signed up for, I wanted every movie, disc, store, and digital in one place, where is this company going!
  3. Despair: I cant believe this is happening to me!
  4. Acceptance: I need to change my perception of the K value proposition to what their new value proposition is, not what it might be in the future or what it used to be. K will not likely ever be able to offer me a location for every movie I own, so in the future other equipment will need to remain to supplement my movies that are on K.
So I am happy with K again since I am no longer fighting with what they will offer going forward. Sticking with this great system would be preferable to me. There are some other things that impact my decision;
  1. I don't thinks Discs are going away. I suspect they will go the way of books and vinyl. Like many people I enjoy the tactility of discs and the true ownership of the movie that digital does not offer. People have lost movies on iTunes and you are at the mercy of the studio if or when they decide to pull the movie from the online vendor which triggers the movie disappearing from your vault. It doesn't happen often, but when it does their is no recourse or restitution. Your movie is just gone. That is not ownership to me. While a disc is not eternal, they can be archived easily, someone already mentioned a Nimbie. While Oppo and Samsung no longer make players, Sony doesn't appear to be going that direction and announced last year that a 4K player will be included in their new game consul. There are plenty of independent companies that issue discs every month, you can find 50 new discs every month on bluray.com. Many that have never seen the light of day on disc before. I think the discs will survive as other media has done so in the past.
  2. Like most folks, K syncing with Movies Anywhere would be a very good thing. This means that if K was to fail, you would still have digital versions of most of your movies. I think it would be easier to grow its clientele if K was not an "all or nothing" option. I never bought into the "Legal Queue" theory for Disney. Someone mentioned it in the forum and then it became cannon. Neither K nor Disney has ever claimed this was the source of the delay. The idea that Disney has limited legal resources I just cant buy into. I think their legal resources are practically unlimited. K has asked Disney and for some reason we are not privy to, nor is it reasonable we should be if it is truly an ongoing possibility, Disney has not agreed. Hopefully when K finds out the final answer it will let us end users know. No is the second best answer in sales. If Disney says no, why not Vudu? Why not Amazon? That partnership could really boost K sales.
  3. K offers hundreds of titles in 4K and HD that are not available in any other equal format. This makes K almost indispensable for the movie lover. If one accepts that it will not be the single source for all your films and is a piece of equipment in your rack along with other media players, maybe they can enjoy K as I do, not "the" solution but "a" solution.
So, I hope my evaluation of my future direction with K may help someone else and thanks Jim for starting this vital thread.
 
Nice write-up Noah! I did the same analysis and replaced most of my 3U's with 1U+'s after deleting content I'll never watch, and replacing with Store content. I was forced to stay with the two system setup (Co-Star) because I have 6 rooms that are Premiere only, I only have a few rooms that have access to my UHD/HDR content. I mention this because many of my clients have similar situations where they feed several rooms in their homes with Premiere only, limiting UHD/HDR to one or two displays, so giving up Premiere would eliminate access to K in those rooms, which is not an option for most.

(I sent you the current 1U+ pricing by private conversation.)

Jim
 
@sirgadget, no, I have not tried standard drives without a file system. I trust the guys that designed it when they tell me it will not work. Try it, let us know what you find.

Regarding replacement drives, as long as there is a reasonable market (making financial sense to keep inventory given the demand), the drives will be available from K. I'm not really concerned about access to replacement drives, K is not going to suddenly stop selling replacement drives, but if they do, I'll work to support existing Premiere owners.

Jim
 
I did a little looking around on the internet and came up with some prices.
A new 1U+ is retailed for around $13,000 with 30TB's of usable storage.
A new Terra Server with 40TB's of storage retails for about $15,000.
Does that sound about right?
 
The retail price of the 1U+ 30TB is $18,495, it's the 18TB version that is $13K.


Jim
 
The Terra 40TB is $16,495 retail, the 24TB Terra is now $12,495. These components increased in price effective March 1st.

Jim
 
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