• Thanks for visiting the Kaleidescape Owners' Forum

    This forum is for the community of Kaleidescape owners, and others interested in learning about the system, equipment, services, and the company itself.

    It is run by a group of enthusiastic Kaleidescape owners and dealers purely as a service to this community.

    This board is not affiliated in any way with Kaleidescape, Inc.
    For official technical support, product information, or customer service, please visit www.kaleidescape.com

  • You are currently in "Guest" mode and not logged in with a registered account.

    The forum is free to use and most of the forum can be used by guests who are not registered....

    ... but we strongly encourage you to register for a full account. There is no cost to register for a full account.

    Benefits of registering for a full account:

    • Participate in the discussions! You must have a registered account to make posts on the forums. You will be able to start your own thread on a topic or question, or you can reply to other threads/discussions.
    • Use the "Conversation" feature (known as "private messaging" on other forums) to communicate directly with any of the other users here.
    • Access the Files area. The "resources" area of the forum contains many "Favorite Scene" and Script files that can dramatically increase the enjoyment of your Kaleidescape system. Go directly to great scenes in your favorite movies, created by other owners, and add automation to playback of your system with Scripts.
    • You won't see this annoying notice at the top of every screen!😊

    It's easy and free to register for the forum. Just click the "Register" button in the upper right corner of this page, and follow the instructions there.

What would you do? Out of space on my server

My current system
  • An 18TB Compact server was purchased end of last year.
  • Have 440 movies that were purchased or upgraded via D2D offer
    • 330 movies that are downloaded on my server
    • 110 movies that were 'deleted' or NOT DOWNLOADED due to the server being full
    • Have additional 130+ movies in my Digital Offers (D2D) that I would like to purchase sometime in the near future
Over the last two months, I've been 'deleting' my recently viewed movies if I want to buy new movies or buy from digital offers.
It's not ideal.

Other factors:
My internet is capped at 300MB, so the advantages of having the Compact Terra over the slower downloading, older server isn't a concern.
I'd like to 'see' all of my movies on the player when I browse on the player. If I 'delete' a movie, it does not appear on my screen.

I'm thinking of these options (not in any particular order)

1) Buy another server, say 12 or 22 TB to supplement my current server or even
2) Sell my 18 TB and use the proceeds to buy a larger server
3) Look for an older, used Strato player with some storage
3) Keep deleting and re-downloading as needed

I would love to hear some of your ideas on how to resolve this.
Thanks in advance!
 

Oldred

Well-known member
My current system
  • An 18TB Compact server was purchased end of last year.
  • Have 440 movies that were purchased or upgraded via D2D offer
    • 330 movies that are downloaded on my server
    • 110 movies that were 'deleted' or NOT DOWNLOADED due to the server being full
    • Have additional 130+ movies in my Digital Offers (D2D) that I would like to purchase sometime in the near future
Over the last two months, I've been 'deleting' my recently viewed movies if I want to buy new movies or buy from digital offers.
It's not ideal.

Other factors:
My internet is capped at 300MB, so the advantages of having the Compact Terra over the slower downloading, older server isn't a concern.
I'd like to 'see' all of my movies on the player when I browse on the player. If I 'delete' a movie, it does not appear on my screen.

I'm thinking of these options (not in any particular order)

1) Buy another server, say 12 or 22 TB to supplement my current server or even
2) Sell my 18 TB and use the proceeds to buy a larger server
3) Look for an older, used Strato player with some storage
3) Keep deleting and re-downloading as needed

I would love to hear some of your ideas on how to resolve this.
Thanks in advance!
I would do option 1 but obviously this depends available budget/offers/kit. I would but the Compact Terra so that you can take advantage of the faster speeds at some point. You may not have it now but speeds are constantly rising and getting cheaper. This way you get the benefit of a spare server if/when one eventually fails. I have ended up with 2 servers and this has come in handy already for me.

I think some degree of deleting makes sense to most people but tedious when you are having to do it weekly.

just my 'tuppence'
 

matth22

Well-known member
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
Agree with Oldred. Adding a second server is how I handled the same situation although it will depend on your situation and resources.
 

9riffTX

Well-known member
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
#3 as long as you can hold out. :)

Even with big terra speeds, downloads will take Xminutes. You already are in a 250 movie whole and new content arrives every week. How much digital rent you want to pay is up to you.

For performance and space for movie night download, I try to leave a few movies space on a compact server. Unless the movie choice is a group decision, 10-20 minute wait isn't the end of the world.

I have learned to live with a nearby iPad and "my movies" filtered by "downloaded to" or "not downloaded to" for the ability to "see everything."

Of course, I type all of this knowing very well that there is an empty spot in my compact rack dropping me hints.

Your download speed experience may be the tipping point, though.
 

Substance

Well-known member
1- How many new movies do you buy each year?
2- Do already own most of the catalog titles you care to own? How many more will you add to your collection?

You already own 440 movies and another 130 catalog titles awaiting purchase. K hardware has 5 year warranty. It makes sense to plan for the next 5 years. Multiple your answer to question 1 by 5 and add your answer to question 2. Add a %20-30 headroom.

In example:

You buy 2 new movies per month on average. That’s 120 movies in 5 years.
You plan to buy another 200 catalog titles because of the sales and whatever.

440+130+120+200 = 880 + %20 = 1050 movies

Based on this, you need about 48TB of storage in the next 5 years.
 

Oldred

Well-known member
This is quite an interesting question the more I think about it, so thanks to Teriyaki88 for raising it and for Substance’s reply. I wouldn’t change my advice but Substance’s response is an interesting one that made me consider other aspects.

To start there, Substance’s example would give you a requirement for 48tb over the 5 years. To stick with that example, you could sell your existing server and buy a 48tb server and that would I am sure optimise your per movie disk space cost. But it would also mean that a disk failure would take out 1050 of your movies at once and replacing it when it does fail post 5 years would be another fairly excessive outlay with you being out of action while it was replaced. Also much of that disk space would lay empty and not used without the disk life extending.

The alternate is to perhaps to buy multiple servers over time. I,e, a new customer perhaps buying a 22TB first while deferring buying a second server until later. Once that is purchased you then get a backup, Your second tranche of disk should survive longer than it might (in principle) if you had bought a single larger server. Also disk capacities, disk prices and technology moves so fast, does it make sense to lock in for 5 years? Also the deferral increases the disk cost per tb but it gives the customer longer to fund the purchase.

I am probably not explaining it very well, but it’s a set of choices driven by your budget situation and appetite for risk. Personally I am happy enough that I have 2 servers although there are no doubt power/green costs. The backup is important and splitting the replacement costs rather than it being one larger outlay ‘feels better’ to me. Not understanding my needs beforehand has left us with a 12 tb together with a 22 tb server added later. Ideally that would have been 2 x 22TB but I can’t turn back the clock.

Would I add a third server? I guess I would prefer not to but the answer would be driven by cost/opportunity.

The risks of disk failure and the 5 yr warranty is I have to admit a little unsettling. The thought that I might have to buy this again after 5 yrs is not ‘making my day’ but having just watched another great movie, I am not sending it back :)

Interesting thread.
 

Substance

Well-known member
This is quite an interesting question the more I think about it, so thanks to Teriyaki88 for raising it and for Substance’s reply. I wouldn’t change my advice but Substance’s response is an interesting one that made me consider other aspects.

To start there, Substance’s example would give you a requirement for 48tb over the 5 years. To stick with that example, you could sell your existing server and buy a 48tb server and that would I am sure optimise your per movie disk space cost. But it would also mean that a disk failure would take out 1050 of your movies at once and replacing it when it does fail post 5 years would be another fairly excessive outlay with you being out of action while it was replaced. Also much of that disk space would lay empty and not used without the disk life extending.

The alternate is to perhaps to buy multiple servers over time. I,e, a new customer perhaps buying a 22TB first while deferring buying a second server until later. Once that is purchased you then get a backup, Your second tranche of disk should survive longer than it might (in principle) if you had bought a single larger server. Also disk capacities, disk prices and technology moves so fast, does it make sense to lock in for 5 years? Also the deferral increases the disk cost per tb but it gives the customer longer to fund the purchase.

I am probably not explaining it very well, but it’s a set of choices driven by your budget situation and appetite for risk. Personally I am happy enough that I have 2 servers although there are no doubt power/green costs. The backup is important and splitting the replacement costs rather than it being one larger outlay ‘feels better’ to me. Not understanding my needs beforehand has left us with a 12 tb together with a 22 tb server added later. Ideally that would have been 2 x 22TB but I can’t turn back the clock.

Would I add a third server? I guess I would prefer not to but the answer would be driven by cost/opportunity.

The risks of disk failure and the 5 yr warranty is I have to admit a little unsettling. The thought that I might have to buy this again after 5 yrs is not ‘making my day’ but having just watched another great movie, I am not sending it back :)

Interesting thread.
Keep in mind, I answered my own questions in my example :) let‘s see how Teriyaki will answer them. Maybe Teriyaki plans on much fewer purchases in the next 5 years.

48TB server would still work with one drive down. The movies on the bad drive would not be available to watch. K can send you the replacement drive and it is field serviceable by the customer. I would give slight edge to 48TB here since you don’t need to mail it in for service like you would with compact Terras.

After 5 years, I believe you are SOL on both compact and full size. I might be wrong but in either situation, K will give you %50 off on a new unit instead of offering repairs. This isn’t a bad scenario. Less than 3 years ago, the largest Terra you could buy was 40TB. You would have paid something like $22k for it. Say it broke on you after the warranty period. Now K will offer you %50 off on a 88TB. Yea, you need to fork another $13k or so but consider you are getting your 40TB free and paying the extra for the remainder 48TB. Makes sense?

For a first time buyer, my formulate above is very simple. If you already own a Terra its more complex. I would investigate the market and see how much I can get for my 18TB then subtract that from the cost of 48TB. I would compare this number to how much it would cost to buy a 22TB. Assuming you will get a decent hit on the 18TB sale (although K hold its value well, especially while under warranty), it might be cheaper to buy a 22TB and call it. There is also the hassle of selling something (I hate it). Did you talk to your dealer? Some are actually pretty nice to buy your used one at a decent price and sell you a larger unit.

I actually highly recommend Kaleidescape to have a storage estimator calculator on their website. The customers enter how many disc they have to convert to digital, how many new movies they watch a month and some smart algorithm to help them figure out how large of a catalog title library they may have. In return this calculator suggests a system size.
 

Oldred

Well-known member
Very good points S. The bits that I hadn’t understood properly BEFORE our initial purchase was

1 - the difference within warranty on disk replacement. I had mistakenly thought all were user/field replaceable.
2 - our demand. TBH I was doubtful then that we would buy quite so many older movies that we already had or had seen. We planned to use it mostly for our blockbusters and specially loved favourites.
3 - how enticing, how frequent and how good the sales would be.
4 - we had hesitated about getting into this or not for a long while due to speeds etc and a 48TB would require a lot more familiarity and certainty I think.

We were particularly keen on fast download speeds and the 12-15 mins for a fully loaded new movie makes the convenience benefit of streaming irrelevant. I only have compact terras but I think the larger terras are a bit slower (is that right). Also even now I am a bit unclear if adding a non compact 48tb to our system slows down download speeds to the compact terra?

Unless you have a close friend with one it’s not that easy to fully understand quite what ownership is really like. Well that was the case for us and unfortunately we didn’t know anyone. Don’t regret taking the plunge though.
 

9riffTX

Well-known member
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
We were particularly keen on fast download speeds and the 12-15 mins for a fully loaded new movie makes the convenience benefit of streaming irrelevant. I only have compact terras but I think the larger terras are a bit slower (is that right). Also even now I am a bit unclear if adding a non compact 48tb to our system slows down download speeds to the compact terra?
The download speeds of the non-compact Terra are the 7mins* you see promoted. The compact terra servers are slower.

I think the download speed is determined by the storage destination within the system -3U, Alto, compact terra, terra.
 

Oldred

Well-known member
The download speeds of the non-compact Terra are the 7mins* you see promoted. The compact terra servers are slower.

I think the download speed is determined by the storage destination within the system -3U, Alto, compact terra, terra.
Thanks. I had misunderstood the relative speeds then. it had made sense to me because I had thought the compacts were using SSDs, hence the smaller profile but obviously not.

Actually according to the compact and the larger terra data sheets they both download at the same speeds - 800mbps.
Can't see 7 mins mentioned for a 4k movie - 'just as little as 10 mins'. Unless the www site datasheets haven't been updated.
 
Thanks for this!
Meanwhile, i'll keep my eyes open for used servers for an economical solution or until my 5 numbers plus the bonus number hits. Did not win last Friday's Mega drawing ;)


1- How many new movies do you buy each year?
2- Do already own most of the catalog titles you care to own? How many more will you add to your collection?

You already own 440 movies and another 130 catalog titles awaiting purchase. K hardware has 5 year warranty. It makes sense to plan for the next 5 years. Multiple your answer to question 1 by 5 and add your answer to question 2. Add a %20-30 headroom.

In example:

You buy 2 new movies per month on average. That’s 120 movies in 5 years.
You plan to buy another 200 catalog titles because of the sales and whatever.

440+130+120+200 = 880 + %20 = 1050 movies

Based on this, you need about 48TB of storage in the next 5 years.
 
Here are a couple of other things to add to the conversation:
  • I bought a ton of movies after I got my K and cataloged a bunch. I went crazy!
  • I bought/replaced the collection of my favorite movies from the past 40+ years.
  • Since I bought my most desired movies already, I don't think I'll keep buying at this pace. I guess that I'll be more opportunistic and patient with my purchases. I'll wait for those big sales, like the one from Dec. I know I could rent at $7.95 but buying at $9.99 seemed like a better solution.
Thanks!
 

Substance

Well-known member
Thanks. I had misunderstood the relative speeds then. it had made sense to me because I had thought the compacts were using SSDs, hence the smaller profile but obviously not.

Actually according to the compact and the larger terra data sheets they both download at the same speeds - 800mbps.
Can't see 7 mins mentioned for a 4k movie - 'just as little as 10 mins'. Unless the www site datasheets haven't been updated.

The gigabit ethernet port is realistically capped at 940mbps or about. Spinning HDDs can read/write consistently at around 200Mb/s, that’s 1.6gbps (1byte = 8bits). So the bottleneck is the processing power of the chipset and the software in the servers. The full size Terra has larger fans and more room to dissipate heat from the chipset. The compact Terra is more likely to throttle the clocking frequency of the chipset on longer burst operations to keep from hitting thermal limits. Either case, there are too many variables. It is difficult to tell if one is faster than the other.
 

Oldred

Well-known member
Here are a couple of other things to add to the conversation:
  • I bought a ton of movies after I got my K and cataloged a bunch. I went crazy!
  • I bought/replaced the collection of my favorite movies from the past 40+ years.
  • Since I bought my most desired movies already, I don't think I'll keep buying at this pace. I guess that I'll be more opportunistic and patient with my purchases. I'll wait for those big sales, like the one from Dec. I know I could rent at $7.95 but buying at $9.99 seemed like a better solution.
Thanks!
Thanks and good hunting. :)

I just wonder what % of those movies that you have bought that you have watched so far?

For me it's just 13%. I can buy a lot faster than I can watch.

There is another relevant calculation worth considering for the older ones amongst us.
How many movies can you watch in a year and how many years are we likely to have left in which to watch them. While you are at it, add in the books, albums and games to the calulation. I calculate I may have to watch, read and listen 20 hours a day to consume all the content that I collect :) But it's all good fun.
 

randman

Member
Option 5: keep pressuring Kaleidescape to show ALL movies one has purchased, even if they need to be downloaded. With Apple iTunes, a small icon with a cloud and down arrow shows up for movies that one owns but would need to be downloaded. I wonder how long people have been requesting this enhancement? I don't see why this should be so complicated to do. Maybe it's a way for Kaleidescape to encourage users to buy more hardware?
 

flitebynite

Well-known member
Although the download speed is slower, you could buy an old 3U K5000 server.
With all 6TB drives, you would end up with 72TB's of storage.
 

Substance

Well-known member
To buy an empty used Premiere 3U chassis and populate it with new 6TB drives to 72TB costs around $13-14k. You need an additional Premiere player and a Costar switch for integration with a Strato. This is about another $1000-1500.

Please keep in mind the download speeds of Premiere 3U server is about 100mbps and it can not download 4K versions. It is limited to SD and HD downloads.
 

flitebynite

Well-known member
There are some of them out there for sale in the $2k-4K range with drives installed that you could expand over time with added 6TB drives. I think the 6TB drives are around $700 a piece.
The costar I bought new was less than $400.
 
To buy an empty used Premiere 3U chassis and populate it with new 6TB drives to 72TB costs around $13-14k. You need an additional Premiere player and a Costar switch for integration with a Strato. This is about another $1000-1500.

Please keep in mind the download speeds of Premiere 3U server is about 100mbps and it can not download 4K versions. It is limited to SD and HD downloads.
Interesting. Is it possible to download movies using my Compact Terra and ‘move‘ to a Premier system? I’m guessing it would be a pain to sort HD and SD version, etc.
 
Top