What is the real reason K does not always have the current 3D Audio Track?

[audioguy123]

There are some post on AVSForum on this subject but since no one from Kaleidescape (to my knowledge) visits that forum, I thought I would raise the question here.

I was under the impression that the reason for K not occasionally providing the latest audio track was due to the studios not providing it to K. If you read the few posts on the subject starting HERE, there are those who are saying that K gets the correct audio track (as do all of the streaming services since they all get the same file) but chooses to not include it (due, for example, to the additional licensing costs they choose to not invest in). I am really hoping that is not the case.

I hope someone from K (or anyone else who knows 100% FOR SURE) can shed some light on this subject once and for all. If those who suggest it is K's FAULT for not providing the proper soundtrack are correct, I will be incredibly disappointed.

 

[steelman1991]

I've no doubt that the answer lies somewhere in between. Sadly you're discussing with a poster who has made several disparaging and totally incorrect claims against K in the past. Predominantly that you lose access to titles purchased if K lose licensing rights, or that internet access is required to playback titles, because the player "has to call home". Both totally debunked. Hopefully K can clarify the issue once and for all, because it is something that is festering away in the background - for some.

Like you, I just can't see that it is a "cost" issue. I'm certain that Saving Private Ryan would very quickly recoup the outlay, if it were available to K with immersive audio.

 

[Sonus]

I don't think it matters what the reason is, K is not known for being transparent. if other digital platforms have it and K does not they messed up, the reason does not matter.

I haven't seen any recent titles with this issue at least in the last few months to be completely honest, this used to be an issue but it looks like K addressed that.

 

[audioguy123]

I don't think it matters what the reason is,

It does to me if they have lied about it. The few titles that I have run across that don't have the latest audio were just as enjoyable as if they did. Not a huge deal. But if K was being dishonest about it, I do have serious problem!!

 

[Substance]

They say they get their digital mezzanine file from the digital content team of the studios. Is there any 3D content on iTunes or other? Maybe there is. I haven’t noticed. If the studios won’t ever provide 3D masters then there isn’t any point to add 3D support is my speculation

 

[audioguy123]

They say they get their digital mezzanine file from the digital content team of the studios. Is there any 3D content on iTunes or other? Maybe there is. I haven’t noticed. If the studios won’t ever provide 3D masters then there isn’t any point to add 3D support is my speculation

I'm talking about 3D audio, not video. And we already know that there have been situations where the streamers have 3D audio but K does not. So either (a) they get a different file than do the streamers; or (b) they get the same file that everyone else gets but for reasons only know to K, choose not/refuse to give it to us. If that is the case, I would like to know why?

 

[zatchury]

I think it’s mostly been determined that this is all case by case, and not some broad policy. It would probably be more helpful to point to concrete examples and ask what the deal is.

Saving Private Ryan is probably the most famous case, and I believe it was confirmed this is because Paramount has 4K physical rights but digital rights seem caught between Paramount and Dreamworks. K still offers the HD version from Paramount (with whom they have a licensing agreement) but does not offer the 4K with Atmos because iTunes has a Dreamworks agreement and K does not. My guess is K would love to reach a licensing agreement with Dreamworks and it just hasn’t happened yet.

An example where it seems the studio hasn’t provided Atmos to digital retailers at all is Looper, where Sony put it on disc but neither K, iTunes, nor Vudu has Atmos available.

Now there may be some cases I’m sure where K for whatever reason hasn’t prioritized going back and adding an updated track to an older title, but I’m at a loss to name any besides Transformers 1-3, which although owned by Paramount also have a Dreamworks connection - not sure if that’s why or if it’s just a coincidence.

Are there other specific examples you are wondering about?

 

[Hunter67]

I think K is being honest, if you look up any movie that's missing DTS-X or Atmos on the K store and the streaming equivalent on Vudu or Movies Anywhere, the majority of the time they are also missing Atmos and only have 5.1.

 

[cinelife]

The question being asked is implying we haven't gotten the "real reason." There is no logical reason that K would hold back 3D audio if it were provided by the Studio, and no, there is no monetary consideration in the equation. They've always said they'd provide whatever audio tracks they're given at release, and upgrade that audio if an upgrade was later provided. Just because one, or some, competitors get a different version, be it a different video rez, or audio tracks, doesn't mean there's a conspiracy at K to withhold these from us for some unknown reason. They always want to release the best quality file made available to K, but in some cases Studios may have contract obligations that favor one vendor over another (usually for a specific time period), it's that simple.

Jim

 

[Sonus]

The question being asked is implying we haven't gotten the "real reason." There is no logical reason that K would hold back 3D audio if it were provided by the Studio, and no, there is no monetary consideration in the equation. They've always said they'd provide whatever audio tracks they're given at release, and upgrade that audio if an upgrade was later provided. Just because one, or some, competitors get a different version, be it a different video rez, or audio tracks, doesn't mean there's a conspiracy at K to withhold these from us for some unknown reason. They always want to release the best quality file made available to K, but in some cases Studios may have contract obligations that favor one vendor over another (usually for a specific time period), it's that simple.

Jim

Again, you blame the studio for the lack of immersive sound on K titles. Those studios do provide 3D Audio to Apple and Google and since there is only ONE digital release for everyone, your reasoning does not make sense.

 

[Sonus]

It does to me if they have lied about it. The few titles that I have run across that don't have the latest audio were just as enjoyable as if they did. Not a huge deal. But if K was being dishonest about it, I do have serious problem!!

They never lied because they never said anything about it, show me when K explained themselves to anyone? Tom one time mentioned there was an issue with a track and they removed it, he never said they didn't get it or didn't pay for it.

People in this forum might say things but they do not represent K.

 

[cinelife]

Again, you blame the studio for the lack of immersive sound on K titles. Those studios do provide 3D Audio to Apple and Google and since there is only ONE digital release for everyone, your reasoning does not make sense.

I don't "blame" anyone. Blame assigns responsibility for a wrong, there is no wrong here, there's just a situation some people don't like, and that's their right.

I'm fine with negative comments, as long as they don't cross what I call the "AVS line" with personal attacks, that's not permitted here (not saying anyone has done that yet.)

BTW, try getting any other company to "explain themselves" just because a customer thinks they should. There's no secret about the way K operates, there's nothing new here, they have company policies like any company, and for those of us that have been involved from the beginning, these policies have always been understood, and haven't changed much in 20 years. No one is forced into being a K owner, it has always been a choice.

General comment:
People don't have to love everything about K, every company can improve, and there are no perfect products anywhere in the AV world, BUT I won't allow posts that call into question the company's integrity based on nothing but opinion or speculation. Take those crazy attacks to other forums that allow those posts. If someone has a factual basis for an allegation, bring it, but let's not use a personal belief to state or imply that someone at K is being dishonest, that's just wrong, and will not be permitted in this forum. Anyone bothered by that knows the way to the door.

Jim

 

[audioguy123]

I don't have an issue with not having the most current 3D audio track on any movie. There are not many and up-sampling whatever IS provided is fine. My question is about the WHY? I have read all kinds of reasons, but none from Kaleidescape

I have read (not from K) that all "streamers", as well as Kaleidescape, get the same digital file. I have not seen K refute that. If that is accurate, I think it is a legitimate question on why K (a Premier provider) chooses to not provide the 3D audio format when (or maybe "if") the streamers do. If it is not accurate that the streamers provide a 3D audio soundtrack and Kaleidescape does not, then I sincerely apologize for accepting inaccurate information as accurate.

All of that said, I do wonder why Kaleidescape can't just set the record straight on this issue - and if they have, I would love to be pointed to that explanation.

 

[msimanyi]

I don't have an issue with not having the most current 3D audio track on any movie. There are not many and up-sampling whatever IS provided is fine. My question is about the WHY? I have read all kinds of reasons, but none from Kaleidescape

I have read (not from K) that all "streamers", as well as Kaleidescape, get the same digital file. I have not seen K refute that. If that is accurate, I think it is a legitimate question on why K (a Premier provider) chooses to not provide the 3D audio format when (or maybe "if") the streamers do. If it is not accurate that the streamers provide a 3D audio soundtrack and Kaleidescape does not, then I sincerely apologize for accepting inaccurate information as accurate.

All of that said, I do wonder why Kaleidescape can't just set the record straight on this issue - and if they have, I would love to be pointed to that explanation.

You might re-read our moderator’s post above, specifically where he writes “BTW, try getting any other company to "explain themselves" just because a customer thinks they should.”

 

[JohnJ]

From what I have seen, there have not been any recent movies that were missing immersive audio. Even “Jurassic World: Dominion” had an excellent Dolby Atmos soundtrack. I was concerned that it might not since the disc had a DTS:X soundtrack.

Also, ALL my Fox titles that were missing Dolby Atmos have now been updated (and I have virtually all of them) with Atmos.

I don’t think all of the old Universal titles have been updated but I have checked and all the recent ones have immersive audio.

So, in summary, if there is a charge for including immersive audio, Kaleidescape has paid to have ALL of the old Fox titles updated and are currently paying for ALL new releases to have immersive audio.

What am I missing?

John

 

[audioguy123]

BTW, try getting any other company to "explain themselves" just because a customer thinks they should.

Jim

I have asked other companies and they did respond. I asked what I thought was a fair question and certainly K has a right to not "explain themselves".

This answer from @JohnJ would have been (and is) a more than reasonable response and directly answers my question.

"So, in summary, if there is a charge for including immersive audio, Kaleidescape has paid to have ALL of the old Fox titles updated and are currently paying for ALL new releases to have immersive audio."

 

[audioguy123]

From what I have seen, there have not been any recent movies that were missing immersive audio. Even “Jurassic World: Dominion” had an excellent Dolby Atmos soundtrack. I was concerned that it might not since the disc had a DTS:X soundtrack.

Also, ALL my Fox titles that were missing Dolby Atmos have now been updated (and I have virtually all of them) with Atmos.

I don’t think all of the old Universal titles have been updated but I have checked and all the recent ones have immersive audio.

So, in summary, if there is a charge for including immersive audio, Kaleidescape has paid to have ALL of the old Fox titles updated and are currently paying for ALL new releases to have immersive audio.

What am I missing?

John

Thank you. That totally answers my question.

 

[cinelife]

Fair enough, I'm glad you got the answer you were looking for, and I apologize if my answer was blunt, I'm use to dealing with my pre-teens, and that's always a communication challenge.

Jim

 

[rehr0001]

Fair enough, I'm glad you got the answer you were looking for, and I apologize if my answer was blunt, I'm use to dealing with my pre-teens, and that's always a communication challenge.

Jim

“A communication challenge” with pre-teens/teens ….. ha! If ever there were an understatement!

 

[cinelife]

Yeah, my 11 yo Son thinks he's a stand up comic, and his twin Sister just got her first real acting job, so she thinks she's close to not needing home support! (She's got a lot to learn about this business....) (and now my 8 yo Son wants to be a ghost hunter.....obviously I "miscommunicated" somewhere)

Jim