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What is the future of Kaleidescape with streaming only titles?

David23

Well-known member
I just recently read about Netflix buying the rights to Knives Out 2 & 3. It's clear that there are going to be more and more A-list movies that are locked in to streaming services and not getting a physical or even EST release. How will K navigate this?

Would it be possible for K to partner with streaming services to be able to watch their releases on a K system? Somehow link your Netflix account to K and then be able to download full-res movies for an increased monthly fee?
 
I suspect is streaming services partnering will have the initial window to view the movie; a KScape rental option will often be negotiated at the same time or thereafter; and then a KScape purchase option. Its all about $$$ and KScape is a source to make more $$ for the movie studios and production companies, but KScape may well have to wait its turn in view of superceding contracts like Netflix.
 
I think the studios would be giving up too much if they limited releases to streaming only. Not everyone is willing to add a service (think HBOMAX) just to see a new release every month or two, and then you factor in the eventual return to theaters, and international sales, etc., and the fact that a segment of viewers want to own what they spend money on ("own" loosely applied here), I don't see the content owners disregarding an additional revenue branch, just to focus on streaming revenue. I think we all know this industry will eventually get to that point one day, but I personally think that's years down the road, but hey, I tend to think I know more than I do, so maybe I'm missing something.

I do know that the folks managing K are a smart and connected group of people, they're not sitting at home downloading movies oblivious to these industry changes, I have faith that they will keep K relevant going forward.

Jim
 
At some point bandwidth will expand to allow full quality movies to stream, and at that point, the current K architecture will become unnecessary and obsolete. Streaming will eventually win. But the players and the timeline are both yet to be determined, so we might as well enjoy high quality here and now and let the rest sort itself out over time.
 
I think the mass availability of the tech needed to push lossless down the pipe “live” - assuming the method stays the same - is still a long long way off. End of the decade at the absolute earliest and I’m being very optimistic. Mark my words… (what did Bill Gates alledgely say about 640K… 🤣🤣)
 
Here’s a follow up thought too; we obviously talk about lossless but the K files, although sometimes much larger than disc versions, could still be rendered a higher rate. Anyone know what the “cut off “ is too become “lossless” or am I overly simplifying it/wrong terminology? I’m assuming the source mezzanine files are substantially bigger than a couple of 100GBs. Are they what is used at reference theatres or do they too have rendered versions?
 
I cannot see a reason an internet delivered movie provider other than K would increase the quality of their content to better than it is now. I have never heard of any such provider state this was an objective or that current bandwidth limitations are why they are not offering larger files now. By the way, the last Microsoft study on high band availability in the US found almost half of the US has download speeds under 25mbs. That is a market of 150M people.

To me it seems like Ford vs Ferrari. Not the movie but the auto companies themselves. Does Ford have the finances to develop a sports car as good (subjective I know) as Ferrari? Yes. Does it have the know how or could it acquire the know how? Yes. So why doesn't it? Because Ford sold 4.2M cars last year and Ferrari 9,000. The same could be said of iTunes.

  • Why would Apple develop new products to appeal to an exceedingly small segment of the market?
  • Why would it acknowledge the inferiority of its cash cow just to create products that appeal to this micro segment?
  • Why create a product that directly competes with its existing highly successful product line?
  • Why produce a product that is less compatible with the hardware it sells due its limited storage space?
  • Can the average streaming purchaser realize a much better experience on their TV, let alone their laptop, iPad, or phone and even if they could, would they be willing to pay more for this incremental benefit?
To my thinking, which is probably wrong, there is no meaningful upside for these providers to offer a product that is better just because they could. While Ferrari can provide a high-end product to its niche market and support itself, even if Ford could capture half of Ferrari's market share over time, that would raise their sales by .1%. Probably not where they want to spend their focus. Just one man’s thoughts and I could be completely wrong.
 
I agree with the last post. Apple or whomever needs a business reason to push quality. Meaning enough paying customers that will notice, use, and pay for the efforts involved to provide it. They can go a long while I think being the best streaming quality without stepping all the way to full disc/Kaleidescape quality.

That said, things are happening. Sony is launching their high bit rate video service and rumors are heating up that high fidelity audio is coming from Apple soon.
 
I don’t see the streaming service will get the full bit rate as K and game of thrones The Long night just a year or 2 and All we see how bad was the stream in this episode

K or disc will remain the top as stream will depends on many matter to get the best of it such how many people are watch at the same time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ford vs. Ferarri is apt, but so is McDonalds vs. Ruth's Chris Steak House. The problem I see is the product that gets served (the movies) are the more the same than different in both outlets. The makers (the movie studios) currently produce a product with great picture and sound quality for movie theaters (which can also be experienced on 4K blu-ray and on K in our home theaters). But if movie theaters and physical media become niche or go away completely, why would they bother worrying about the PQ and 16 channel ATMOS sound mixes if most everyone is consuming the product via streaming on an LCD TV with sound bar?
 
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I agree with the last post. Apple or whomever needs a business reason to push quality. Meaning enough paying customers that will notice, use, and pay for the efforts involved to provide it. They can go a long while I think being the best streaming quality without stepping all the way to full disc/Kaleidescape quality.

That said, things are happening. Sony is launching their high bit rate video service and rumors are heating up that high fidelity audio is coming from Apple soon.
Apple Music lossless audio just announced, at no additional cost:

 
That's big news. Been rumored for a little bit now, but they went full bore. The entire catalog in lossless quality in a single upgrade. Not months of slow transition. Plus the Atmos and 24 192 titles transitioning in as well.

Availability
  • Spatial Audio with support for Dolby Atmos and Lossless Audio will be available to Apple Music subscribers at no additional cost.
  • Thousands of tracks will be available in Spatial Audio with Dolby Atmos at launch, with more added regularly.
  • Apple Music’s catalog of more than 75 million songs will be available in Lossless Audio.
 
Just read the announcement from The Verge. This is only for Apple Music?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, for Apple Music subs. I read that actual music purchases are not going to be available at the higher quality, which seems odd. We will see if that holds.
 
even odder -

AirPods Max doesn’t support Apple Music lossless songs, says Apple​


Anything over Bluetooth is lossy regardless if the music file is lossless. Bluetooth AptX is a little better( still lossy) but Apple doesn’t support it. You need an outboard DAC and wired headphones to get anything decent out of an iPhone.
 
This is great news for Apple Music. Up until now, it offered the worst sound quality out of all music streaming services. I looked and my Autonomic based McIntosh MB100 doesn’t support Apple Music. I am still going to be tied to Tidal for this.

Streaming lossless video is a little bit more complicated. Some streaming apps like Prime and iTunes on Apple TV occasionally peak to 26mbps on 4K titles and 16mbps on 2K but the average bitrates are far lower. Physical discs and Kaleidescape are 4 to 6 times these. I would consider a worthy upgrade if they at least upgrade the audio. Currently, most streams are 228kbps to 448kbps even on Atmos tracks.
 
I use AM on the go and have Tidal masters at home into a PS Audio DirectStream DAC, I use Roon to jointly manage Tidal and my huge CD collection which I ripped “lossless“ and all my other music files, DSDs, etc. I went ALAC over FLAC on the CDs because I’m all Apple.

Managing everything as one library via Roon is epic and the Roon UI and value add is awesome but I do wonder how it’ll fair now because AM is basically going to do the same on its own. I’d prefer to keep Roon - I have a lifetime subscription - but seems mad paying an extra sub for Tidal when AM is bundled into my Apple One service.

(yep, tad off topic I know)
 
Oh and I use a Chord Mojo as the DAC interface from my Mac mini. Technically that’s a portable DAC but I use it as a desktop one no issue - sound mint too.

I use an Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt for when I’m “properly” travelling with iPhone/iPad but given I’ve not traveled anywhere for over a year, it’s not had much use!
 
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