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Thoughts on Music with K/Is K falling behind?

moviefan

Active member
Is Kaleidescape falling further behind in Music as other companies are offering much better systems/software? The K system is capable of everything other systems can do but the software is not keeping up with innovation of other music servers.

Offering the ability to work with Mac is long overdue.

Sooloos is offering streaming

I think the K is still the best video server on the market, but in this market could they not bolster there sales by improving the music side of things and become the leader in music servers also.

I hope this will spur some discussions and get k's attention so they catch up with and possibly surpass others in this music server category.
 
Is Kaleidescape falling further behind in Music as other companies are offering much better systems/software?
Can you give an example?

The K system is capable of everything other systems can do but the software is not keeping up with innovation of other music servers.
Again, an example will be helpful.

Offering the ability to work with Mac is long overdue.
I know quite a few people want to see Kaleidescape integrate with iTunes somehow but as for myself thats is not something I want, need or require and here is why.
First off I use Kaleidescape for music 90% of the time the other 10% is for movies (my wife is the opposite, she uses Kaleidescape for movies 90% of the time and music 10%). When I use Kaleidescape for music I want to hear full, uncompressed, lossless audio. Compare that to iTunes, Rhapsody, or any other download/streaming service where you are going to get 256kb at the highest which is nowhere near the audio quality of the Kaleidescape.

Second, for music I still by CD's to import into Kaleidescape and if I ABSOLUTELY need it now I purchase music from Music Giants, burn it to CD and import it to Kaleidescape. Read my posting about Kaleidescape, iTunes, bit rate and music downloads HERE and Here.

Third, I think whats needed, more then iTunes integration is support for SACD (Super Audio CD). I have quite a large connection of SACD's but I can not import them into Kaleidescape which is a real bummer. I have been told over and over that Kaleidescape will not support SACD in the future. :(

Sooloos is offering streaming
Again at what bit rate? Do I want to spend $15,000+ to stream 128kb internet audio when a $200 AppleTv that streams the same 128kb internet radio station will due?

Don't get me wrong, at some point Kaleidescape will offer streaming and downloading of audio but unless it's at the caliber of Music Giant's it will be a "me too" type of thing.

I think the K is still the best video server on the market, but in this market could they not bolster there sales by improving the music side of things and become the leader in music servers also.
Kaleidescape is working on this but do not expect to see anything soon. By soon I mean with in a year AT LEAST.

For some reason when it comes to video people want the highest quality they can get. I know there is a contingency of potential Kaleidescape owners who are waiting to purchase a Kaleidescape system because it does not do Blu-Ray and are waiting for the Blue Laser Player. But when it comes to audio we gone in the reverse direction. We have gone from hi fidelity audio (Think of it in terms of Blu-Ray) down to Compressed, MP3's (iTunes/Rhapsody, think of analog, SD TV). When it comes to audio I want the best possible audio reproduction I can possibly get with my Kaleidescape system just as I do with video. I feel iTunes, Rhapsody and internet streaming just does not cut it on a Kaleidescape due to the poor audio quality.

These are just my personal opinions.
 
James you pretty much echo my own sentiments on the matter. I think the reason for the divide between video and audio is people think the visual is more important without realizing the importance of the sonic. Also I think its easier to plop down a large plasma tv and turn it on and watch it and think youre watching great video whereas audio is much more involved to get setup right.


There is always room for improvement but Im pretty happy with K's audio side.
 
Music support for MACs

I'll throw my vote in for MAC support! I believe my first request for this was 2005 or 2006. K also needs to allow importing of music and exporting of high quality (lossless) music. I understand their desire to delivery the highest quality audio (bit for bit), but many users already have libraries. It should be the customer's choice. I do quite a bit of listening to music and I will not re-rip 50,000 uncompressed lossless tracks. I have been waiting patiently for them to add these features. It's a shame that I can't even speak to the music feature-set because of these two issues. Just my 0.02c
 
As for 'falling behind'

My vendor has allowed me to live with a Sooloos for a few weeks. It's output is fair, but I send it through my DAC as I would do with my K output. The Sooloos' major advantage over the K offering is it's software. It's not even close! Over Thanksgiving I gave my guests access to the Sooloos with no instruction. They meandered through my collection for hours. It's like what I do with the K for movies in our guest rooms.

I didn't want to demo the Sooloos initially because they don't allow importing either, but they're Beta testing this function. So I was able to be the guinea pig. :) I would still like to have the K be my source for both movies and music. They best the Sooloos on most everything else (server robustness, service, scalability etc.).
 
I'd never heard of Sooloos, but after some googling (and navigating around meridian's not-so-straightforward site) I looked into it. From their integration page:

Download music and easily drop it into your system to make it available anywhere. Export music to any iTunes library or computer in your home, to have it available on all your portable devices.

Would love if I could do this with kscape. When I download MP3s from amazon, it's kind of annoying to have to burn then import (even worse when I just want a single track)
 
The Sooloos works exactly the same in this respect. Downloading means ripping a cd (until the Beta is out). Also, just like the K, it will output mp3 (not uncompressed lossless). I have been told by my vendor that their customers are screaming for uncompressed lossless output as well.
 
I would think the Sooloos will get some improved audio output/ processing compliments of their connection with Meridian... I like their interface a lot. But whose going to buy a product that does music only? Perhaps it is a better music system than K but you can get both with K. I agree though that K should have a look at this and consider improvements. There is always room for improvement.
 
Thanks to everyone who has commented.

To reply to a few of the comments, the software side of things when it comes to music is where I feel k is not keeping up.

The example I give here would be the sooloos system which is offering several neat features. Thanks to Reg for posting his comments on the sooloos, this music server offers several cool features with more coming.

I tunes integration and Mac support are long overdue, super SACD would also be great, my point is just that the better the k system is, the better value it is. If someone is willing to spend 7900.00 or more on just a music server, the k system is a better value if the music software is equal or better than the competition.

If you get a chance to demo the sooloos system it is worth the time to check it out. There not doing anything K could not do and possibly do better. :)
 
Does anyone know why K does not support the SACD or DVD-Audio formats? There are many "basic" DVD players that are universal players so that would lead me to believe it is easy to do? no?

Is it a case of K not wanting to do something that they can't do to their standards of quality?

PS I read a review of the Sooloos that was very glowing in one of the magazines (either Sound & Vision or Home Theater). All positive and mentions of how the interface is fantastic, but as mentioned, the price tag for it for music only is pricey and noted as one of the only "cons" to the system.

I know that the question has been asked and re-asked, but has anyone figured out a new magic trick to get iTunes onto K besides burning a lot of CD's? sounds like that is still the only way.
 
My guess is licensing. CDs are pretty much open format. The fair use doctrine covers them. But DVDs of any stripe have encryption (not sure about SACD but I would assume it does too) and under the law breaking the encryption is a no no. Kaleidescape has the legal cover to do this for DVD-Video but I do not think they have it for DVD-A nor SACD. I too would like this, but I bet the politics are super thorny and the priority right now has got to be Blu Ray. Interesting idea would be for some enterprising person to get all the DVD-As and SACDs remastered into the lossless HD formats on BR and get the discs reissued....
 
The Sooloos works exactly the same in this respect. Downloading means ripping a cd (until the Beta is out). Also, just like the K, it will output mp3 (not uncompressed lossless). I have been told by my vendor that their customers are screaming for uncompressed lossless output as well.

This is 100% wrong. The Sooloos rips all CDs to FLAC and when you play audio back through either the digital output or one of the analog outputs, you get full uncompressed audio. You can also input audio in FLAC or WAV at up to 96/24 and it will play back in high resolution. Also, the Sooloos uses EAC to ensure that you have bit-perfect copies of the music. Sooloos simultaneously creates a 320K MP3 file of each track. The directory with these files gets mounted as a drive on your computer when you run the client and you can point iTunes or another music manager to that drive and then copy the music to your iPod or whatever player you may have. You can also access the server through a web browser and stream music to your computer at 196K VBR (including from outside your network if you know how to do port forwarding on your router). Finally, there is a free (!) iPhone controller.

The software is amazing, too. It is as good for finding music as the K interface is for finding movies. Maybe better. It isn't perfect, though. While there is amazing amounts of info in their database (so for example, you can find every album in your collection that Eric Clapton plays on), this information is stored at album level, not track level. So if you have a compilation album, you will find the album if you search for any artist on it, but it won't tell you which track the artist performed on. Also, it is a bummer that to get the full benefit of the system, you have to buy the $5,500 Control 10 touchpanel. I wish that you could do it all through a computer or a TV.
 
Does anyone know why K does not support the SACD or DVD-Audio formats? There are many "basic" DVD players that are universal players so that would lead me to believe it is easy to do? no?

No. You can rip a DVD-Audio disk to a K, but all you'll get is the compressed audio, not the high resolution audio. DVD-Audio and SACD are locked up with much more sophisticated encryption/watermarking than DVDs or even Blu-Ray disks have and they simply will not play unless the disk is in the drive. The watermarking checks for a code in a hidden spot on the disk every few seconds and if it isn't found, playback stops. To date, no one has cracked either format. Moreover, Kplayers are limited to 48/18 resolution, so it even down converts the high resolution LPCM tracks on ordinary DVDs that have them. (This is particularly galling to me because whatever licensing restrictions K is bound by, they even work to prevent me from playing back non-commercial DVDs with 96/24 LPCM tracks of music that I wrote, performed and recorded in my own studio.)

The K is by far the best server solution for movies, but it leaves a lot to be desired for audiophiles. It isn't bad, mind you, but if you want something better than CD quality, if which there is a LOT out there, the K can't handle it.
 
I use my Kscape for my multiroom system (i.e the 6 zones from 2 movie players and a music server) into a Linn knekt system (the linn being solely uses to switch between its 8 analog inputs and various rooms, and get the audio to the local rooms).

But I use a Linn 'DS' system for listening to music in the 2 rooms I sit to listen to music in, the quality of which is stunning and shows up the Kscape as not being that great for music.
(In the room I compared I have a Linn Klimax DS and a Movie Player 300 plugged into the same amp)

The pain of this is holding the music twice, once on the kscape and once on another fileserver.

I'd love it if the kscape would act as a file server for its music over a format that others players could use (even if 'read only') ... Never expecting them to do that with movies though

Richard
 
Hopefully now that k has introduced Blu ray they can put some effort into music. The sooloos system just continues to get better and better, while k seems to fall further behind. As the best movie server on the Market you would think they would want to be the best in music also. It would be great to see a single zone player with output so it could be fed into the user dac of choice. It seems k does read these forum so maybe its worth listing features you would like to see in future music upgrades and new music players.
 
This may belong in another forum, but one of my problems with K's music is that it is very tedious to get to when I'm trying to 'surf.' I have a Kscape player in my exercise room, for example, but when I want to listen to music, I find that my iPod is much easier to move around on to find songs than the Kscape is. It is tough to go through my library to find songs, unless I have created some playlist before-hand....
 
Hopefully now that k has introduced Blu ray they can put some effort into music. The sooloos system just continues to get better and better, while k seems to fall further behind. As the best movie server on the Market you would think they would want to be the best in music also. It would be great to see a single zone player with output so it could be fed into the user dac of choice. It seems k does read these forum so maybe its worth listing features you would like to see in future music upgrades and new music players.
I agree. I tried music on the K for 2 albums and ordered a Sooloos the next day. It was great as it was, 2.0 was even better, and 2.1 is awesome. Well worth the $10k it cost me. I'd have gladly paid that $10K to Kaleidescape instead if they had a decent music system.
 
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