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Stewart Filmscreen Vistascope versus Wallmask

House72

Well-known member
Hello All

I am designing my media room and have been advised to get a Vistascope screen for my designer's perfect presentation of every aspect ratio. I was trying to see if a Wallmask instead works to save cost.

I am being told that this may not be the best solution, even with a video processor in the chain. Just trying to see what is the general advice from everyone here. How do you like your masking system.
 
Here's the main thing to keep in mind with a screen that is CinemaScope aspect ratio and then masks in from the sides for other ratios: every other ratio will be smaller than your 2.35/2.40 content. Some people find that this works fine for them.

But also keep in mind that it's becoming increasingly common for directors to shoot some or all of a movie using IMAX cameras or other large-format cameras. (Avatar: The Way of Water is a recent example -- the whole thing is 1.90:1 aspect.) And some of them used mixed ratios (Top Gun: Maverick or The Dark Knight).

For a film like Avatar: The Way of Water (assuming that it's released for home viewing in a 1.90 aspect ratio or even 1.78 as the original Avatar was), it doesn't exactly make sense to watch that at one of your smallest screen sizes. But it might be fine. Some folks will set up their theater so that they watch 1.78/1.85 content from the front row, and 2.40 from the second row, for example. That way you still get a big and engaging image for both aspect ratios.

For Maverick, it's even trickier. Because parts of the film are 1.90:1, we have to bookmark it in our system as that ratio. That means that by default, when you project it, you will be watching it in the center of your screen, with the side masks in. Then when the 2.40 content comes along, that content will still be constrained to that smaller width, and you will additionally have black bars at the top and bottom.

I would suggest that if you go with the wide screen, you ensure that your installer includes the ability for you to manually set an aspect ratio. Then when you watch something like The Dark Knight you can force the entire film to be shown at 2.40, cutting off the top and bottom of the IMAX scenes. With most of these mixed-aspect films, they're shot in anticipation of being shown in some commercial 2.40 theaters and so while you are losing part of the IMAX frame, you're not typically losing vital information.
 
Oh, PS: I'm not personally familiar with the WallMask product, so I'm not sure if supports this, but what I do with my own 1.78 screen is I mask it only from the top. I use my video processor to shift aspect ratios like 2.40 down to cut off the bottom black bar, and then I just mask the top. I did this out of necessity since my screen is a roll-down motorized screen, but I've found that I really like it. It puts the image lower on the wall and I find it more comfortable at that height than if it were centered vertically. Just something to think about.
 
I have decided to go with Vistascope even though it’s expensive. It is extremely expensive but have no options.
 
I think with some well placed seating options and the ability to manually override aspect ratio on those mixed-aspect films, you should be able to have a great setup. Enjoy!
 
I want to save money and get their wall mask, but been told by multiple folks will miss the variable masking offered by Vistascope.
 
First time on thread. Getting a Kaleidescape with Savant. JVC NZ8. Marantz AV10 and Amp10. B&W diamond in walls. I’m looking at the Stewart Wallmask HM system (masking top and bottom only), 16:9, 133”, Phantom HALR Plus with microperf. Does anyone know if either the K (or the Savant) will “instruct” the Wallmask to variably change the aspect ratio DURING watching a variable aspect movie, such as a Christopher Nolan movie? If not, is there a way to do this? Any advice appreciated! Looking for a great movie experience with K!
 
No, movies have a single defined aspect ratio in our metadata. In the case of variable-aspect movies, we bookmark them as the most "open" aspect ratio that fits all of the content. This computation is made relative to a native 1.78:1 frame (i.e., 1.85 is "more open" than 2.35 on such a screen).

There are video processors with automatic aspect ratio detection, but you may want to watch a movie like The Dark Knight closely before you go down that road. That movie has aspect-ratio changes that are only a few seconds long. Your masks would still be moving to one ratio when the aspect would change again.
 
No, movies have a single defined aspect ratio in our metadata. In the case of variable-aspect movies, we bookmark them as the most "open" aspect ratio that fits all of the content. This computation is made relative to a native 1.78:1 frame (i.e., 1.85 is "more open" than 2.35 on such a screen).

There are video processors with automatic aspect ratio detection, but you may want to watch a movie like The Dark Knight closely before you go down that road. That movie has aspect-ratio changes that are only a few seconds long. Your masks would still be moving to one ratio when the aspect would change again.
Makes sense. So, with my plebeian understanding, watch the movie with the imbedded K metadata at the most “open” aspect on my 16:9 screen with me masking top and bottom. Then, when the movie shifts to Imax or such, the content will fit ’inside’ the original aspect ratio, and without side masking, possibly have grey bars left/right. Is my pedestrian explanation correct?
 
Not quite. On a 1.78 screen, the most "open" aspect ratio is 1.78:1, and all other aspect ratios with a bigger number before the :1 have progressively larger black bars top & bottom.

Let's take Top Gun: Maverick as an example. The IMAX flying scenes are 1.90:1. Most of the ground scenes are 2.40:1.

On your 1.78 screen, your top & bottom masks will close by a few inches to mask off to 1.85(*). Then for the 2.40 scenes you'll have larger black bars above and below. This is basically exactly what happened if you saw the film in a movie theater.

(*) Why 1.85? Kaleidescape's masking metadata currently supports 1.33:1, 1.66:1, 1.78:1, 1.85:1, 2.20:1(**), 2.35:1 and 2.40:1. Since 1.90 is not one of those ratios, the system will pick the closest available ratio that doesn't obscure any content. That's 1.85:1. On your 133" diagonal screen size, the difference in image height between 1.85 and 1.90 is 1.6 inches vertically, which will be split evenly between top & bottom. So, basically ~0.8" of un-masked gray bars, which in practice is invisible.

(**) I confess that I'm confused by 2.20. I know we show that ratio for some movies like 2001, but I didn't think our control protocol events included it, so I need to investigate that further.
 
Oh, I should add: if you have a very fancy masking system controller, in addition to the fixed list of ratios I enumerated above, we also output "trim" information. For systems with infinitely controllable masking, that trim information can be combined with the preset to mask any aspect ratio precisely. So for the 1.85 vs 1.90 case, we would output a small amount of mask-in trim top & bottom.

Still just one set of data for the movie, though.
 
Let's take Top Gun: Maverick as an example. The IMAX flying scenes are 1.90:1. Most of the ground scenes are 2.40:1.

On your 1.78 screen, your top & bottom masks will close by a few inches to mask off to 1.85(*). Then for the 2.40 scenes you'll have larger black bars above and below. This is basically exactly what happened if you saw the film in a movie theater.

(**) I confess that I'm confused by 2.20. I know we show that ratio for some movies like 2001, but I didn't think our control protocol events included it, so I need to investigate that further.

This is what happened if you saw it in an IMAX theater. Non-IMAX theaters with scope screens ran it in straight 2.40:1 with no aspect ratio changes.

Re: 2.2:1, we started watching Dear Edward on AppleTV+ this weekend and discovered it’s in 2.20:1. I love the ratio but interesting choice for a show that hasn’t done much of anything to take advantage of it (yet).

2.0:1 was popularized because it was as wide as Netflix would allow episodic productions to post in without making a special case for going wider. I’m a fan of the wider the better, so I’m all for 2.2 and 2.4 ratios.
 
This is what happened if you saw it in an IMAX theater. Non-IMAX theaters with scope screens ran it in straight 2.40:1 with no aspect ratio changes.
100% correct, thank you. That's what I meant to say.

2.20 is a very uncommon format, but there were some very high-profile movies in that ratio, like 2001 and The Sound of Music.

2.0 is definitely becoming more common. It kind of splits the difference between 1.78 and 2.35, which is one reason a lot of constant-area masking systems use a 2.0:1 screen with 4-way masking.
 
Also went with Stewart product (Balon Series). Was worried about similar with differing aspect ratios but instead decided to get a MadVR Envy unit. It has non-linear stretching and didn't have to worry about the differing aspect ratios as the processor handles this. Plenty of YouTube videos showing material on Kaleidescape handing these differing formats in a more seamless manner
 
I have decided to go with Vistascope even though it’s expensive. It is extremely expensive but have no options.
Stewart is the best screen company period.
I have had many Stewart screens over the years and their service is impeccable.
Own a 14 foot 2:40 Vistascope at present - be sure to control masking by IP, you will get more AR/masking positions than you need (I think 20, I am using only 7).
Coupled with a Lumagen - my Crestron programmer is working on a program for me where the Vistascope gets command from Lumagen to move masking as it senses AR changes.
For movies with changing AR - the plan is set the Lumagen such that the Vistascope is wide open to 2:40 and stays there for the length of the movie.
 
For movies with changing AR - the plan is set the Lumagen such that the Vistascope is wide open to 2:40 and stays there for the length of the movie.
Are you going to research this ahead of time and manually pin it, or is there automagic involved?
 
Are you going to research this ahead of time and manually pin it, or is there automagic involved?
We have this achieved already...sort off
At this time the Masking is not controlled by Lumagen ... so once the masking is say at 2:40 and Lumagen changes AR as the movie AR changes the Masking stays at 2:40
The Goal (which is easy to program) is to have a ON/OFF button for masking and keep it ON for most movies which don't have AR Changes and set It to OFF for AR Changing Movies.
 
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