Replication?

[Joe]

Folks,

I was just informed by my dealer that my new 1U+ servers are ready for delivery. I ended up getting 2 30TB servers to replace my 1 48TB 3U server. So, I was wondering how replication works. Let's say I get these servers, put them on my network and fire them up. How do I get my 3U to replicate my collection to these servers? Also, since there are 2 of them, would the replication spread the collection amongst the two servers evenly? Is that automatic or do I need to manually intervene in some way?

Also, my 3U was grandfathered and I DEFINITELY want the 2 1U+ servers to continue in that tradition. So, I still want to be able to load CDs, DVDs and Blu-Rays without any hassles. How do I make sure that grandfathered status carries over to the new hardware?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[J.Green]

The replication feature will need to be enabled on your systems (both the 3U server that you are going to replicate from and the new system containing your 1U+ servers that you will replicate to). Your dealer can take care of this. You can tell that replication is enabled by loading the system's browser interface and navigating to the Settings>Components tab. If you look at the Server block, there should be a link at the bottom reading "Replicate from this 3U Server". If that's not there, then replication is not enabled.

I'm not going to describe the entire replication process -- that's a 15 page document that your dealer has access to on our dealer portal -- but I'll give a general description and answer the specific questions that you posted:

In general, the following must be true in order to successfully replicate your content:

1. Your two systems (old 3U system and new 1U+ systems) must be activated on the same store account. You can have up to 5 systems activated on the same store account;
2. Replication must be enabled on both systems as mentioned above;
3. Both systems must be running the exact same version of kOS;
4. Both systems must be on the same subnet of the same network (ideally a Gigabit network)
5. If you want imported DVDs from your source server to replicate to the destination system, then at least one server in the destination system must have CSS DVD support enabled (i.e. it's "grandfathered").

Item 5 is the one that trips up most replication attempts. In your specific case, the grandfathered status of the 3U server must be transferred to one of the new 1U+ servers before you start replicating the content. This can be done by contacting our Support group.

...since there are 2 of them, would the replication spread the collection amongst the two servers evenly? Is that automatic or do I need to manually intervene in some way?

As long as you group the two 1U+ servers into a single system, then the replication process will spread the content across the two servers automatically.

Also, my 3U was grandfathered and I DEFINITELY want the 2 1U+ servers to continue in that tradition. So, I still want to be able to load CDs, DVDs and Blu-Rays without any hassles. How do I make sure that grandfathered status carries over to the new hardware?

As long as one server in the system has DVD CSS support enabled then all servers in the system will be able to import DVDs as if they were grandfathered. Note, however, that the grandfathering is at the component level so if you were to remove the grandfathered server from the system then the remaining servers would lose the ability to import CSS protected DVDs. Once you transfer the DVD CSS support from your 3U server to one of your new 1U+ servers (which you'll need to do before replicating) then both 1U+ servers will be able to import DVD content as long as they are part of the same system. Your old 3U will NOT be able to import DVDs any more (unless you were to group it with the 1U+ system).

One other thing to clarify: "Grandfathering" only applies to DVDs and the ability to import them. Music CDs and Blu-ray discs are not affected by a server's DVD CSS support status.

I know I've only scratched the surface here but hopefully this answers your questions.

 

[Joe]

The replication feature will need to be enabled on your systems (both the 3U server that you are going to replicate from and the new system containing your 1U+ servers that you will replicate to). Your dealer can take care of this. You can tell that replication is enabled by loading the system's browser interface and navigating to the Settings>Components tab. If you look at the Server block, there should be a link at the bottom reading "Replicate from this 3U Server". If that's not there, then replication is not enabled.

I'm not going to describe the entire replication process -- that's a 15 page document that your dealer has access to on our dealer portal -- but I'll give a general description and answer the specific questions that you posted:

In general, the following must be true in order to successfully replicate your content:

1. Your two systems (old 3U system and new 1U+ systems) must be activated on the same store account. You can have up to 5 systems activated on the same store account;
2. Replication must be enabled on both systems as mentioned above;
3. Both systems must be running the exact same version of kOS;
4. Both systems must be on the same subnet of the same network (ideally a Gigabit network)
5. If you want imported DVDs from your source server to replicate to the destination system, then at least one server in the destination system must have CSS DVD support enabled (i.e. it's "grandfathered").

Item 5 is the one that trips up most replication attempts. In your specific case, the grandfathered status of the 3U server must be transferred to one of the new 1U+ servers before you start replicating the content. This can be done by contacting our Support group.

As long as you group the two 1U+ servers into a single system, then the replication process will spread the content across the two servers automatically.

As long as one server in the system has DVD CSS support enabled then all servers in the system will be able to import DVDs as if they were grandfathered. Note, however, that the grandfathering is at the component level so if you were to remove the grandfathered server from the system then the remaining servers would lose the ability to import CSS protected DVDs. Once you transfer the DVD CSS support from your 3U server to one of your new 1U+ servers (which you'll need to do before replicating) then both 1U+ servers will be able to import DVD content as long as they are part of the same system. Your old 3U will NOT be able to import DVDs any more (unless you were to group it with the 1U+ system).

One other thing to clarify: "Grandfathering" only applies to DVDs and the ability to import them. Music CDs and Blu-ray discs are not affected by a server's DVD CSS support status.

I know I've only scratched the surface here but hopefully this answers your questions.

Wow, what a detailed response. Thank you SO MUCH for this! One question, when you say music CD's and Blu-Ray discs are not affected by DVD CSS support status - you mean I'll be able to import them without issue, right? Just want to make sure. Thanks again for taking the time to provide this response. Greatly appreciated!

 

[sirgadget]

@Joe if you want to let go of your 3U for a decent price, i might be interested.

PM me.

 

[Joe]

@sirgadget I would entertain that but I have to send Kaleidescape my old 3U as part of the upgrade deal, unfortunately. I'll miss that server. It has served us well for a long time and (I think) looks more attractive than the 1U+. Still looks impressive glowing in the equipment rack. Oh well, all in the name of progress I guess

 

[sirgadget]

@sirgadget I would entertain that but I have to send Kaleidescape my old 3U as part of the upgrade deal, unfortunately. I'll miss that server. It has served us well for a long time and (I think) looks more attractive than the 1U+. Still looks impressive glowing in the equipment rack. Oh well, all in the name of progress I guess

Okay, that sucks, but oh well

I have a 3U with all 2TB drives that i bought a few months back, looking to get a second that I probably wouldn't use until my next house. My 22U rack is full, and i don't really have the space for my equipment here, but in the next I'll build two or three full size racks in a separate temp controller room as part of a theatre.

 

[Joe]

Nice! I went from 2 racks back down to 1. I had a sprawling Crestron system that was aging. Ditched that for consumer stuff (SONOS connect amps, Ring doorbell, etc) all working with Alexa. Only thing in the rack is that stuff, Anthem pre-pro/amps and the k-scape gear.

Would have loved to stay with 3U but it's not supported anymore. Gorgeous device. Oh well...

 

[andy]

when you say music CD's and Blu-Ray discs are not affected by DVD CSS support status - you mean I'll be able to import them without issue, right?

Hey Joe, you will be able to import both CDs and Blu-ray with the standard caveats:

• The Blu-ray disc must be present (in a disc vault or tray of an M500 player) to play the imported title
• If you opt in to the Disney agreement, you will no longer be able to import Disney DVDs or Blu-ray discs (they will be cataloged instead)

 

[sirgadget]

Nice! I went from 2 racks back down to 1. I had a sprawling Crestron system that was aging. Ditched that for consumer stuff (SONOS connect amps, Ring doorbell, etc) all working with Alexa. Only thing in the rack is that stuff, Anthem pre-pro/amps and the k-scape gear.

Would have loved to stay with 3U but it's not supported anymore. Gorgeous device. Oh well...

Yeah, i had that they retired the 3U, for us who have vast physical collections, and i think it's a mistake in general they're moving away from physical media.

In my opinion it's only their own greed that prevents them from doing a 4K Blu-Ray disc Vault and continuing to properly support physical media.
I will probably get a couple of Terra Servers to go along with my system in my next house, but it runs me the wrong way that I'm forced to purchase in their store at much inflated prices compared to discs. I like collecting discs, i just don't like sifting through them.

I'm honestly still contemplating if i should just build a Plex system with autorip through an Acronova Nimbie or something like that, which is easily achieved.

I have built home automation myself too, and use Denon He's (much better components and sound than Sonos).

I'm q software engineer/DevOps by trade and also dabble in security, so I'll be using my racks for running blade servers too, running a ton of VMS.

 

[sirgadget]

Nice! I went from 2 racks back down to 1. I had a sprawling Crestron system that was aging. Ditched that for consumer stuff (SONOS connect amps, Ring doorbell, etc) all working with Alexa. Only thing in the rack is that stuff, Anthem pre-pro/amps and the k-scape gear.

Would have loved to stay with 3U but it's not supported anymore. Gorgeous device. Oh well...

To circumvent the fact I'm currently out of space in my rack I'm currently building an ITX based 22 core 256GB RAM server in a NAS enclosure that's gonna run VMware ESXi, with the four hard drives passed through to a TrueNAS VM, and the M.2 SSD used for hosting that VM and others, this in addition to my Kubernetes cluster running in Raspberry Pis.

 

[Joe]

Sigh... Got tied up and was unable to kick off the replication until now. According to the replication projection, it will take about 27 days to complete.

Unfortunately, it looks like the players are not allowed to connect during the replication process, which I guess makes sense. It's just unfortunate because I definitely would have wanted the system to be available during the holidays. Toying with the idea of cancelling until the holidays are over.

That said, I would have thought the 4K system would have still been available. If I unpair the 4K from the 3U system, can I use it while the premiere is being replicated?

 

[xxgenericsnxx]

Sigh... Got tied up and was unable to kick off the replication until now. According to the replication projection, it will take about 27 days to complete.

Unfortunately, it looks like the players are not allowed to connect during the replication process, which I guess makes sense. It's just unfortunate because I definitely would have wanted the system to be available during the holidays. Toying with the idea of cancelling until the holidays are over.

That said, I would have thought the 4K system would have still been available. If I unpair the 4K from the 3U system, can I use it while the premiere is being replicated?

A couple of hints that you may find helpful during replication:
1. It replicates at appx. 1TB/day (using gigabit switches/network gear)
2. As content gets replicated into the destination server, players paired with the destination server can view the replicated content.

 

[Joe]

That is interesting information. So, I wonder in what order it does the replication. Looks like it started replicating the last item I bought for the 3U server. If it’s working in reverse chronological order, then I might follow your tips, leave the replication going, and just pair all the premiere players to the new machine. We’d really like to watch some of the latest content that we’ve purchased. So, I have strato players tied to respective premier players via costar switches. If i redirect the premier players to the new machine, will I be able to watch content off the 4K system along with content on the new system, as it’s been replicated to? That would be a compromise position, because we could at least watch 4K content while the Premier systems are engaged in replication.

 

[andy]

If you pair your players to your new Premiere system and the Strato players are added with co-stars, you can watch any content stored on either the destination Premiere or existing Encore system. The only content you won’t have access to is what is on the source Premiere system.

The destination system treats incoming replicated content as “imports” and will add that content to your watchable library as replication progresses. To directly answer your question, 4K content will be playable on your Strato players during replication (assuming they are configured as described).

Andy

 

[xxgenericsnxx]

That is interesting information. So, I wonder in what order it does the replication. Looks like it started replicating the last item I bought for the 3U server. If it’s working in reverse chronological order, then I might follow your tips, leave the replication going, and just pair all the premiere players to the new machine. We’d really like to watch some of the latest content that we’ve purchased. So, I have strato players tied to respective premier players via costar switches. If i redirect the premier players to the new machine, will I be able to watch content off the 4K system along with content on the new system, as it’s been replicated to? That would be a compromise position, because we could at least watch 4K content while the Premier systems are engaged in replication.

It’s my experience that the order of replication is completed in last in first out order. So your newest imports/downloads on the source Premier server will be what gets copied over first. There are other ways to manipulate what gets copied over in which order which involves moving things to the trash and then replicating but it can become a lot to keep track of.

 

[josh]

I can verify that if you've moved the source server outside of your main "system" grouping and have the destination server added and authorized to that main "system" grouping, then playback does work fine as titles get replicated.

In addition, there seems to be no problem with stopping replication and restarting it later if you really want to watch a title on the source system. When you restart replication later, it will pass over all the titles it completed the first time. There's a small time penalty while it checks all that, but not too much.

However, I did post over on the "suggested features" forum one annoyance: when replication is complete, the new server sees EVERY movie as "new". The replication process doesn't preserve the original order and date/time of your actual movie download/import. I believe it sets the "date/time imported" to the time of that movie's successful replication. It shouldn't do that in my opinion. Not a huge deal, but we used our "new" collection as our main way to pick a movie to watch. Now that's useless for us... every movie is marked as new, even movies we imported 10 years ago.

 

[Joe]

Folks, thanks so much for this additional information! I really do appreciate it. Everything from confirming the order of import, to this additional information about stopping and starting the replication. And yes, having every movie be marked as new really is annoying because we use "newness" as our way of picking movies to watch as well.

The other annoying thing I see is that my grandfathered status has not been carried over to my new 1U plus servers. I have coupled 2 30TB 1U+ servers into one in order to accommodate the contents of my 48TB 3U. Now I'm getting these errors:



I surely hope I can get this fixed and hopefully restarting the replication would re-attempt those imports without me having to start the entire replication process over again.

 

[josh]

I had this same issue. Is your new server an "upgrade" in which your old 3U goes back to Kaleidescape once replication is finished?

Kaleidescape support will have to set the grandfathered status on the new server.

Also - is your system set up like this:
- SOURCE server is moved out of the logical "system" grouping
- DESTINATION server IS added to the system grouping with your players and any vaults
- you've registered the new server to your store account

If not, you can stop the replication, set it up that way, then continue the replication. But meanwhile this problem will still keep happening until Kaleidescape sets the grandfathered status on your two servers properly.