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NEWS: Premiere products end-of-sale approaching soon, Support not impacted except discontinued products

cinelife

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I was going to wait until the official announcement from Kaleidescape to post a comment, but apparently someone else that knew about the upcoming announcement shared it with a client that then shared it with one of my clients, and that person planned to post in Forums today. His information was partially wrong so I decided to post this with as much accuracy as possible understanding that some of this info could change before the official announcement.

We all knew this day was coming. We all knew Kaleidescape was planning to move away from disc based systems, as others in the industry are doing. The Store, and the Strato and Terra products were created to make that move. The Store is doing well, as is Kaleidescape, so it is finally time to start moving away from the older disc based components. Kaleidescape isn't alone in this regard, others, including Oppo, could see discs were going away so they exited that market segment as well. New sales of Premiere components has dropped as well, in favor of the industry leading Encore components and convenience of shopping at the Kaleidescape Store. I'm sure it is a financial drag on the company to try and support both systems, and frankly given where the industry is going makes no financial sense, so this is the right move for Kaleidescape, IMO.

The Premiere line products are slowly being phased out. The end of June (next month) is a target date for dealers to order Premiere line products as they currently due. This date is not set in stone, but it is a date we all need to be aware of because after that date there is no guarantee the Premiere product you want will be available. As was pointed out to me, there is a difference between product "sales" and product "support," and Kaleidescape will continue to support Premiere products after the final product is sold. They will continue to sell replacement drives and spare parts for Premiere (the parts available to them) and Co-Star will also remain available. They will also continue Support for all "in-warranty" products throughout the warranty periods. Movie metadata support and KEAOS updates will continue as usual, but support for CD metadata will be discontinued at some point. Premiere servers will continue to receive the usual functional updates as well.

All of that said, the time has come. It's time to move to the future, and the future is digital content. This is obviously the right move for the company, and all Kaleidescape stakeholders (including us). Kaleidescape is doing well, and continues to lead the industry with the best UHD/HDR components in the market, and I expect things will only get better as we go forward. I encourage all Premiere owners to consider upgrading their Premiere components to the Strato/Terra line while that opportunity still exists, or at a minimum, these owners should consider upgrading an older Server (1U, 3U, or 5U) to the much newer 1U+ because doing so guarantees you up to 5 more years of support for your disc based content (assuming you extend the standard 3 year warranty by 2 years). Check with your dealer for details, and if you don't have a dealer and need support to make the move, contact me and I'll help, or alternatively, contact Kaleidescape Sales directly.

It's a great company, with incredible people, and I expect it to continue its industry leading model well into the future.

Jim
 
Thanks Jim.

We’ve all known this was coming, but it’s a sad day now it’s been confirmed.

When and where should we expect the official announcement?
 
I was going to wait until the official announcement from Kaleidescape to post a comment, but apparently someone else that knew about the upcoming announcement shared it with a client that then shared it with one of my clients, and that person planned to post in Forums today. His information was partially wrong so I decided to post this with as much accuracy as possible understanding that some of this info could change before the official announcement.

We all knew this day was coming. We all knew Kaleidescape was planning to move away from disc based systems, as others in the industry are doing. The Store, and the Encore system were created to make that move. The Store is doing well, as is Kaleidescape, so it is finally time to move away from the older disc based components. Kaleidescape isn't alone in this regard, others, including Oppo, could see discs were going away so they exited that market segment as well. New sales of Premiere components has dropped as well, in favor of the industry leading Encore components and convenience of shopping at the Kaleidescape Store. I'm sure it is a financial drag on the company to try and support both systems, and frankly given where the industry is going makes no financial sense, so this is the right move for Kaleidescape, IMO.

Sales and most support of the Premiere line will end at the end of June (next month). My understanding is as follows. Kaleidescape will continue to sell Premiere products still in inventory until the supply is gone. They will however continue to sell replacement drives for the 1U and 3U, and continue drive support for the currently available 1U+, there was no end date mentioned for the drives. They will also continue Support for all "in-warranty" products throughout the warranty periods, but support for out-of-warranty products will end at the end of June.

My take on this change: Frist, I'll admit that I feel a loss here. Being one of the early supporters personally, and then as a dealer, I've become very close to this product line and the wonderful people that work at Kaleidescape. It's strange to say, but I feel like I'm losing a friend, so I can only imagine how difficult this decision is for the leadership at Kaleidescape, including its founders. I think back to the very early days when Mike, Cheena, Liu, and others brought this industry leading Premiere line to the market. Many of us were in awe of its capabilities, and surprised at the industry leading level of support we received as owners. No company came close to matching Kaleidescape's support, and they managed to keep that going to present day. Anyone that has interacted with Rusty in Support knows exactly what I'm talking about.

All of that said, the time has come. It's time to move to the future, and the future is digital content. Kaleidescape is doing well, and if they want to continue the growth of the company and remain financially strong, they have to shift completely to a single business model, supporting both is not tenable long term. This is obviously the right move for the company, and all Kaleidescape stakeholders, even if it is painful to many of us.

That's the "doom and gloom" part of my comment, but there is an upside. Kaleidescape is doing well, and continues to lead the industry with the best UHD/HDR components in the market, and I expect things will only get better as we go forward. I encourage all Premiere owners to consider upgrading their Premiere components to the Encore line while that opportunity still exists. Check with your dealer for details, and if you don't have a dealer and need support to make the move, contact me and I'll help, or alternatively, contact Kaleidescape Sales directly.

It's a great company, with incredible people, and I expect it to continue its industry leading model well into the future.

Jim

I starts my K-scape journey with the encore line and remember in 2015 was the choice to go to the premiere line but I decide to go small with one unit strato then i feel in love so i add the terra server and still plan to add more server and keep my self 100% digital

Sad for the owners but encore line is now outstanding and will grow all the best for K


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks Jim.

We’ve all known this was coming, but it’s a sad day now it’s been confirmed.

When and where should we expect the official announcement?


I don't have that date, but I'm expecting something later this week or next.

Jim
 
I just revised my original post above to reflect new information provided to me by Kaleidescape. They will continue selling some Premiere components while inventory exists. They will support all in-warranty products and will sell spare parts (to the extent they are available) for out-of-warranty products. The main point is that Kaleidescape will continue to support the Premiere line going forward, so no one should hit the panic button on their Premiere systems, but at some point should consider upgrading to newer components.

Jim
 
Thanks for keeping us in the loop Jim.

I know many owners, such as Ahmad78 commenting earlier, are well along their Encore journey and very happy with the “new” direction.

But I thought it was worth offering a different perspective from a Premiere owner.

Obviously I’ll wait for the official wording from Kaleidescape, but the problem with advising us not to hit the panic button is that K’s communication on the matter so far has, in my opinion, tended to be rather terse, focusing on their absolutely valid business reasons for the decision, but seeming to offer very little in terms of smoothing the transition for their loyal Premiere owners.

I completely understand the business drivers behind the decision and also that discs are going away, but I also think there’s a lot more life left in discs than many are claiming. As I write, my M700 is working away beside me, importing a lovely new limited edition boxset of one of my favourite old tv shows. It is very unlikely this will ever be available on the store. I certainly hoped I’d be able to do this for a lot longer, but maybe I’m an outlier.

What will not be completely going away any time soon are the treasured disc collections of many long term and loyal Kaleidescape owners, lovingly compiled over many years. There’s a lot of my collection which I don’t see making it to the store, so to have all my content, disc imports and store titles, sitting side-by-side on the beautiful OSD has really been the magic of the system for me. For me, with disc support going, a lot of that magic goes with it. I personally think K are making this move way too soon, abandoning their ability to be a single source for disc and digital content long before the transition to digital is complete.

Having said that, we’ve all known for a long time that Encore is K’s future, and I have one foot in that camp having recently made a small investment in a Strato and Co-Star, and quite a number of store purchases recently too. It would certainly encourage me to invest further if I trusted that Kaleidescape was doing everything it could to ease the pain you mention for Premiere owners . Specifically, I hope that they invest a small amount to keep support and availability of parts going a little longer. That they produce some advice and guidance on maintaining our components ourselves, now that we’re on our own. And that they consider making the bookmarking and any other useful tools available for willing DIYers.

However given K's aggressive plans to move on asap and not look back, I’m not holding out too much hope for these and so while not panicking, I’m certainly ramping up the reluctant migration of a lot of my stuff to Plex, with the occasional K store upgrade or new UHD title as a treat.

I certainly wish Kaleidescape success though and hope it works out for them, whether I stay along for the ride or not.
 
@mpierson, I'd rather have K comment directly, and they will shortly, but I can tell you (and anyone else reading this) that it was made clear to me today that K plans to continue supporting Premiere owners as best they can going forward. I was told they fully appreciate all the owners that have joined the Kaleidescape family over the years and have no intention to abandon those folks by suddenly shutting down all support for Premiere. My original post has been edited twice already today to make that clear, and to the extent I contributed to anyone's stress with my first post, I apologize.

Point is, I think most of your concerns, shared by many others I'm sure, is that K will do all they reasonably can to offer as much support as possible for Premiere owners going forward, BUT, owners really need to start thinking about future-proofing their disc based systems if those systems are important to them. There will certainly come a time when we will be on our own, so we should plan accordingly, but fortunately this is not an immediate concern. (see my original, corrected, post)

Best to all!

Jim
 
Thanks Jim. It's good to hear, from you, that Kaleidescape values it's legacy customers. And you certainly haven't contributed to my stress as I knew this was coming.

The fact is the help and advice you've offered me and I'm sure many others over the years has been invaluable and has been a key factor in me having a Kaleidescape system at all! This has continued to be the case as recently as last month when you helped and advised me on the purchase of a Strato to add to my system. And this in turn has led to over 30 store purchases since then. So I love my Encore system, but am very sad to see Premiere go and wish it's end of life was being communicated a little bit more elegantly by Kaleidescape themselves.

I feel bad that you've had to edit that post twice today and hope my reply hasn't made things more difficult. But, not accustomed to commenting much on these matters very often, I had to be honest today.

And - I'm sorry to be frank again - but it would be a lot better if Kaleidescape spoke directly and more frequently to us about this transition themselves, rather than you often seeming to have to do it for them. The Premiere Line is the what the company was built on. It is not a hobby project. It's end of life deserves a lot more discussion and consultation in my opinion.

Today's news reminds me of when K removed the Premiere Line from the website without any notice back in August of last year. Looking back on that thread, this caused quite a lot of consternation because no-one was given a heads up and then the CEO had to reactively address the issue on the forum. Wouldn't it have been easier to just communicate it? In the event, his message was quite terse in my opinion, focusing mainly on the business case and Premiere line's low percentage of annual revenues and not confusing the channel for new customers. But this is an owner/end user forum; what does this mean to us as existing customers?

And, unless I've missed something, we haven't heard anything about it since, until today. So I guess my point is that the communication from K could be so much better, and frankly, more respectful towards it's long term customers. Just my opinion.

You're absolutely right though that digital is the future, and I welcome it! I just wish that all the stuff I like was available in the way the big blockbusters are. But as I mentioned, this not being the case, I'm progressing well with future proofing my collection to Plex, which is a pretty impressive system in it's own right and enjoyable to use.

So it's not the end of the world! :)
 
owners should consider upgrading an older Server (1U, 3U, or 5U) to the much newer 1U+
Sure would be nice if Kaleidescape recognized the tough situation this puts longtime Premiere owners in, and offered cheap trade-up offers to retire 3U and 5U servers and get people into 1U+ servers. 🤔
 
Folks, one thing to keep in mind here is that Jim posted (per his statement) because he was starting to hear chatter and someone else (perhaps less qualified to speak up) was planning to publish news. This doesn't mean that communication with Kaleidescape isn't coming or wasn't planned. This situation today jumped the gun a bit.

From a communication stand-point, this thread is being read. I would encourage folks who have questions about this situation to post them here. They may not get answered directly 1:1, but I can collect them and try to get specifics.

I'm learning a bit about this now and there are valid market and manufacturing reasons afoot. Kaleidescape isn't out to make anyone upset or doing anything underhanded. As I see it, technology and distribution are evolving and physical media will continue to find itself in a diminished capacity as time goes by and it's been very clear Kaleidescape wouldn't be moving into 4k physical media.

Let's use this thread to discuss, share feedback, and ask questions.
 
Thanks guys, and yes, I knew Kaleidescape was planning to discuss this in more detail, mainly through a FAQ coupled with additional comments, but I decided to post early because someone leaked some info before K could finish their planned release. The problem with an early release by the person I mentioned, and as it turned out me as well, is that our understanding was subject to modification by K prior to release, and that's what happened. I was planning to wait for K's announcement because I knew they were working on a plan to support Premiere owners as best they could given business externalities. You will see something shortly, based on my conversations with K yesterday, but I want to make it clear that nothing I did moved K to comment on this issue, they had always planned to keep owners informed and had been drafting info for that purpose, so Premiere owners were not being written off or ignored, to the contrary, they really want to help Premiere owners as much as reasonably possible while exercising proper business judgment. They do really care.

Jim
 
Thanks Jim for being proactive on this. I think Mpierson is correct in that when the Premier system suddenly "blinked" out of existence on the K website without any explanation that triggered some concern. This is much better and the scenario you describe is also much better than I expected. Knowing that replacement discs will be available in the future is a big deal since some of the other components can be replaced, but not the discs. Just the simple statement that they will try to continue to support us as long as they can was very positive.

oh, and I agree with Josh in that if there is a win/win way K can offer an upgrade from a 3U to a 1U+ or to the Encore system that would be of great assistance.
 
Sure would be nice if Kaleidescape recognized the tough situation this puts longtime Premiere owners in, and offered cheap trade-up offers to retire 3U and 5U servers and get people into 1U+ servers. 🤔

+1 on this. Given the impending elimination of the Premiere product, IMO it's currently too cost prohibitive to transition from 3u to a 1u+ at current pricing. If K could somehow figure out a way to make this much more cost favorable I think this be an excellent way to take care of legacy clients.
 
Once all add-on disks are gone for premier, K should consider allowing owners to send in disks in an array to recondition them for add-on use. Could be 250 per set or something like that. Realizing that is at the owners risks that the drive might fail, but at least there might be a little life left in them. Thoughts?
 
Once all add-on disks are gone for premier, K should consider allowing owners to send in disks in an array to recondition them for add-on use. Could be 250 per set or something like that. Realizing that is at the owners risks that the drive might fail, but at least there might be a little life left in them. Thoughts?

Once support is eliminated they should sell the drives for $199 + s/h with a 60 day replacement only warranty and a refundable core charge for the old drive (to re-use the shell) that the end user must return at their own expense. They would at least break even on that deal.
 
The currently available upgrade promotion from a 1U, 3U, or 5U to a 1U+ is 25% off (about $3200 on the 1U+ 30TB version). Factor in any additional discount from the dealer (if they provide one), and the number gets better, but yes, the 1U+ is not inexpensive. I recently changed out my 3U's for a few 1U+ servers, wasn't cheap, but adds another 5 years of support at a minimum (I believe support will be available for 7+ years on the 1U+ because K usually covers an extra year or two with spare parts after the warranty expires on the last server sold.

I DO NOT interfere with other dealers and their clients, but I certainly don't mind trying to help any of you guys upgrade to the 1U+ with K's discount and additional help from me, provided you don't already have dealer support. Not concerned with profit, just looking to making the transition "less painful." :) Reach out if you think I can help (but please use your own dealer if you have one).

Jim
 
Once all add-on disks are gone for premier, K should consider allowing owners to send in disks in an array to recondition them for add-on use. Could be 250 per set or something like that. Realizing that is at the owners risks that the drive might fail, but at least there might be a little life left in them. Thoughts?
Good idea. Or even better, just give us access to the tools to make the disks compatible and let us do it ourselves, at least for out of warranty systems. Providing these same tools aren’t used to secure Encore drives as well and as long as no expensive or proprietary hardware is required to do this, why not?
 
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