Newbie questions about Kaleidescape system

[ukaudiophile]

Hello All,

I'm a newbie here so please excuse me if I'm asking stupid questions here.

Just a bit of background, I've been a home theater enthusiast for over 20 years and I've been watching and admiring Kaleidescape's product line a number of years. Needless to say the cost of the Kaleidescape system has kept me away from ownership, and I have been using a network of Windows Media Center's running MyMovies with a central ZFS based server. This solution has kept me very happy until recently, but having recently seen a Kaleidescape Cinema One in operation the old hankering has kicked in again, and looking at the marketplace here has made me reconsider Kaleidescape again for my home.

I am based in the UK, have around 850 DVD's and 300 'ish Blu Ray's. I am looking to cover 3 zones and two of my screens are 4K capable. I have figured out that if I want to hold all of my Blu-Ray's in a K'Scape system I'm going to need either a DV700 or M700 disc vault in my system somewhere. I also understand that if I use an Alto, I can insert the disc then download the movie uncompressed to the Alto's storage. My thinking is to buy a Grandfathered 1U server with at least 4 X 4TB drives and a KPLayer 6000 or M500 to import my DVD's, and possibly use a couple of Alto's on the 4K TV's.

Am I correct in thinking that I can network a 1U server to a couple of Alto's or even a Strato in the future?

Am I also correct in thinking that if I need more storage I can always buy another 1U server and the clients will see the extra server and seamlessly integrate the contents?

Regarding Blu-Ray, without a disc vault, in the UK, are all the studio's on board with Kaleidescape store so I can insert a Blu-Ray into an Alto, and I can download an image to an Alto and access it on either of the Alto's or an M series client?

Where do I stand on upgrading DVD to either Blu-Ray or 4K in the UK. I understand that these upgrades are very cost effective in the USA, can this be done in the UK?

I'm wondering in some cases whether I should upgrade from DVD straight to 4K, if so can I playback the 4K via an Alto, then as and when I got to Strato, I can play in full 4K resolution?

As I said, sorry if these seem silly questions, but I'm trying to establish that this system will do what I want in my home before I start buying the components and putting it together.

Thank you in advance for your advice and knowledge.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

[MikeKobb]

Hello Dave! Many, many questions there. Your best bet is to get with a knowledgeable Kaleidescape dealer to work through your needs.

With that said, let me quickly answer a couple of key items. Encore systems (including Alto and Strato players and the Terra server) do not import content from disc to the server. They play content downloaded from the Movie Store, or discs stored in a DV700 Disc Server. Here's a demo video showing what that looks like.

You mentioned purchasing a pre-owned 1U server that has DVD import capability. Right now, you can't use a Premiere product like the 1U with Encore players, but we expect that to change this year. Early details of our planned Premiere-Encore Upgrade program can be found in this document, and more information will be released as we get closer to launching that feature.

Lastly, just a point of clarification. Alto players can play DVD quality and Blu-ray quality movies, but not 4K Ultra HD movies. Strato players can play all three. Most (but not all) 4K Ultra HD movies also have a Blu-ray quality version, which you can download at no additional cost if you've purchased the 4K Ultra HD version. If you had a mix of Strato and Alto players, you could download both versions if you wanted to have the 4K copy on the Strato, but you still wanted to be able to see the movie in the zone served by the Alto.

 

[cinelife]

Welcome! No questions are silly, ask anything, anytime. You may get an answer in the Forum, or you may need to contact K Support. I'll answer what I can, and if I miss something, hopefully someone will respond to fill in the gaps.

First, keep in mind that you can only gain access to downloads if that movie is in the Store. The U.S. Store has more content than the UK Store for a number of reasons, but the hope is to improve on that going forward. When you place a disc in the Alto, as you described above, and assuming the movie is in the Store, you MAY, or may not, receive a digital offer to download that content. These digital offers are available for specific movies, and sometimes contractual terms limit availability. Contract terms may also affect the cost of the download, some digital offers will be free, others may have a small fee, especially when upgrading to a higher quality movie (i.e. DVD to BR, or UHD).

Currently, the Encore line (Alto/Strato/Terra) does not integrate with the Premier line, but K is working diligently, and long hours, to follow thru on a plan to allow integration of the content on screen between the two lines. They will not be fully integrated, but functionally all content will be viewed together in the GUI. The less than full integration is primarily caused by a restriction relating to security of 4K content.

You can certainly add Premiere components, including servers, and they will work together seamlessly. You will need to wait for the upcoming software release to integrate the Premiere line with the Encore line.

You cannot playback 4K content on an Alto. The only Player capable of doing that is the Strato, and that will not change.

My apologies, in answering I've been interrupted several times, so I may not be clear in some of what I just wrote, but understanding the above will answer most of your questions. On my way out to a Ferrari club meet, I'll re-read this tomorrow and clarify as necessary, unless someone beats me to it!


Jim


Jim

 

[cinelife]

I see our Master of K Knowledge (MKK for short), Mike K, beat me to it! Any conflict between what I said and what he said defers to Mike, as the saying goes, he's forgotten more than I know!!

Have fun!

Jim

 

[ukaudiophile]

Thank you Jim and Mike for your detailed and considered feedback and so throughly answering my questions.

I was unaware that the integration between the Premier line and the newer Encore lines had not been completed. I will keep an eye on the Kaleidescape twitter feed and website, as I know better than to ask software teams about delivery dates. I've been involved in IT for 30 years, so I know it will be delivered when it's working right, and not before given Kaleidescape's attention to detail.

The Blu-Ray download program for the Encore line answers some of my concerns, and confirms others. Rather than bother a dealer right now, I would like to try and do some further homework. Is there anyway I can logon to the Kaleidescape download site in the UK and verify what is currently available, aka if I went ahead with Kaleidescape in the combination I've described, how many of my Blu-Rays could be downloaded into my Kaleidescape system, how much it would cost and how many of my Blu-Ray's would have to be played from disc? I guess I'm trying to figure out if the Blu-Ray provision available to me covers enough of my collection to make Alto purchase worthwhile, or whether I should consider this to really cover me primarily for DVD's today and 4K tomorrow, and look at another way of feeding my Blu-Ray's to my system?

Do I need to be a Kaleidescape current owner to logon to the store, or can I do that through my web browser and research what depth of coverage I have available.

I have located a few potential dealers in the UK who are in my area and are both Kaleidescape and Control 4 dealers, so I can have my Kaleidescape installation integrated with the rest of my home cinema under touch screen control to make it easy for not AV people to operate.

Again thank you all for your feedback, assistance and generosity with your time and knowledge.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

[Transepoch]

Anyone can visit the store without logging in or being an owner.

Do you see all of the content when going to https://store.kaleidescape.com/? I would have figured the site would either read your IP and adjust the available content accordingly or redirect you to the regional domain, but since it is intended for owners maybe it only clamps down after you've signed-in with a UK-based system attached to your account.

 

[J.Green]

Anyone can visit the store without logging in or being an owner.

Do you see all of the content when going to https://store.kaleidescape.com/? I would have figured the site would either read your IP and adjust the available content accordingly or redirect you to the regional domain, but since it is intended for owners maybe it only clamps down after you've signed-in with a UK-based system attached to your account.

The store displays the content available in the region you are in regardless of whether you are logged in or are browsing anonymously. A great indicator that you are seeing the UK store is that the pricing will be in GBP rather than USD or CDN.

 

[AVphile]

Just to be clear -- can an M700 Disc Vault operation on a network with two Disc Servers and an Alto or is it just some dead iron in such a configuration?

 

[MikeKobb]

If you group an M700 with an Alto, it functions as a Disc Server. The built-in player in the M700 is disabled in this configuration.

 

[AVphile]

Lowest cost configuration

I don't own a 4K display yet and don't expect to purchase one until current standards issues are understood and resolved. However, I do have 1,000+ Blu-ray discs in my video library.

I am interested in assembling the least costly way of accessing all of my discs through Kaleidescape. Having an Alto with two Disc Servers (the maximum, I believe) falls short, but the company's Premiere systems can handle a collection my size -- which requires at least three, and maybe four, Disc Servers/Vaults.

My Kaleidescape system will only be used with one 2K display. Also, I have no interest in purchasing movies from Kaleidescape's store; I like having physical discs in my possession. If I were to go with Premiere, do I still need a 1U server as an essential component, or would the disc servers plus a single M500 player suffice?

 

[MikeKobb]

Hello AVphile! Thanks for your interest in Kaleidescape.

I would recommend that you have a discussion with a Kaleidescape dealer to help select the appropriate Kaleidescape system configuration for your needs. There are a couple of different ways you could go with the design of the system, especially if you think that you will want to upgrade to 4K at some point in the future, and it's difficult to convey all of the nuance in a posting like this.

To answer your direct question first: Premiere systems do require a movie server, so yes, you would need at least one as part of a Premiere system. The 1U server with 6TB drives can import about 485 Blu-ray discs, so you would actually need more than one for your entire library. (Premiere systems import Blu-ray discs, so you do need enough hard drive storage to hold all of those Blu-rays.)

I know you've said that you're not interested in downloading movies from the Movie Store, but let me invite you to consider a possibility. If you were to do Disc-to-Digital purchases of as many of your Blu-ray discs as feasible, you could download those movies from the Movie Store and play them without having to have a Disc Server to hold the corresponding discs.

Same-resolution Disc-to-Digital purchases are usually $1.99. You'd still have your discs, but you wouldn't need as much Disc Server capacity, and you get the added benefit of having those movies play from the hard drives, which makes things more responsive.

You could specify an Encore system with a Terra server, an Alto player, and one or two Disc Servers and end up with a system that will hold all of your movies, take up less physical space, play most of your movies from hard drive, and be ready to add a 4K player when you are ready for that upgrade. (Or you could use a Strato rather than an Alto from the beginning, of course.)

 

[cmcgehee]

Couple of things. I understand enjoying having the physical disc. That being said, you can always buy the physical disc and upgrade to the version from the store which is usually $1.99. If that took care of a good percentage of your discs, it would be much cheaper than buying extra vaults to store all of those movies in. It's easiest to just have a vault for the movies not available in the store. Convert the rest to store HD quality. At $2 per movie, and each vault holding 320, that only costs you $640 to convert. Much less than the extra vault that would be needed to house them. Then just put the discs back in its case and store it somewhere, use it in the car, another house, or whatever you choose.
In regards to what kind of players to have, you could buy an M700 vault which has a built in player, you could get an M500, or you could use an M300. Any of them would playback in bluray quality.