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Movie start playing delay between Encore/Premiere/mixed

carajo

Well-known member
⭐️ Premium ⭐️
Hi Guys just trying to see if everyone is experiencing the same as me when playing movies.


1: Premiere only system (M500/1U server/M700 Vault) Movies play within 1-2 seconds of selecting

2: Encore only system- (Strato 6Tb) Movies play within 3 seconds of selecting


3: Mixed Encore/Premiere (Strato S / Costar/1U/M700 vault) Could take up to 10 seconds to play a movie but average is about 7 seconds
 
As to #3, the 10 sec you're seeing is 15 - 20 sec faster than my average! I often see 20 - 30 second delays (and have seen longer) in my combined system. I'm actually considering going back to two separate systems, not sure seeing all my content on screen is worth the delays we experience. All my other non-Co-Star setups are the normal couple/few seconds to start playing. I guess that's the current trade off for many of us, combined systems at the expense of start times.


Jim
 
Wow Jim I can’t tolerate 10 seconds. If it was 20 seconds like yours I would throw it out the window.

Well last night I spent my time emptying my vault and buying over 200 disc to digital for my Blu-ray’s.

I still have over 600 dvd’s on the servers. So I will review upgrading some of them as well. And then get rid of premier servers and player and vault and just use the terra and stratos
 
Here are my start-up times from button push to video display:

3U/M700 stand-alone System:
DVD/SD: 3-4 sec
BR/HD: 7-9 sec

Combined Strato/M300/Co-Star System:
DVD/SD: 6-7 sec
BR/HD: 8-10 sec
HDR: 15-17 sec (sound comes on ~3-4 sec before video)
UHD: 15-17 sec (sound comes on ~3-4 sec before video) (only one title)

All measured with a stop watch but very small sample size. I don’t have a stand-alone Strato setup.

John
 
Hi John and Jim

I don't think those long times are the norm. Do you guys have a solid network and Gig Switches?

I grabbed my stop watch and here are my times from pressing play

HD movie: 6 seconds
UHD: 8-9 seconds
HDR: 10 seconds

I tried many movies including 7 different HDR and nothing takes longer then 10 seconds from PLAY to the movie starting
 
I am using a terra and C player FYI.
HD titles are on the 1U
 
I don't doubt that others can see different times than I do (some longer some shorter). It's all going to depend on the HDMI handshake between source, video processor and projector.

One point is that I don't see much difference with HD content whether I play directly from 3U or through the Strato interface.

John
 
I am also seeing 20 to 30 sec delays in my combined systems. I also have both Strato and M500 (unpaired) used elsewhere in the house that exhibit minimal delays. Rusty, from K. support, and I recently went through the system thoroughly and all network connections are now great. I was using Netgear switches (high end, 10G capable) that did not play well with Kaleidescape. I was getting unreliable response to IP commands and components mysteriously dropping off the network. I went back to my Cisco switches and all is much improved. Rusty states that they have had more problems with Netgear switches than any other. Some delay still exists, which Rusty feels is at least partially due to the sheer amount of data on my systems. Those with very large libraries may therefore experience added delays. I can't say that I noticed this much until my library grew to enormous size and even then, it was not that bad until I added the Co-Star units. Like Cinelife, I may also separate the systems if it gets any worse.

Regards,

Wayne
 
Hi John and Jim

I don't think those long times are the norm. Do you guys have a solid network and Gig Switches?

I grabbed my stop watch and here are my times from pressing play

HD movie: 6 seconds
UHD: 8-9 seconds
HDR: 10 seconds

I tried many movies including 7 different HDR and nothing takes longer then 10 seconds from PLAY to the movie starting


Although I dislike ANY extended delays (more than a few seconds), I could live what you're getting. I actually had one at nearly 40 sec!

I agree with John, handshake is likely responsible for the delays many of us encounter, all of our systems are unique to some extent, and the more gear we put in the chain (VP's, switches, extenders, etc.), coupled with all the security measures put in place, especially with 4K, and the need for ALL components in the chain be able to pass the signal, it's really no wonder some of us have these delays.

Jim
 
Carajo, just to double-check: you are saying that a 4K movie takes ~10 seconds to start wyen you play it on your Co-Star paired Strato, but the same movie takes 3 seconds to play if you un-pair the systems? When you un-paired the systems, did you also take the Co-Star switch out of the chain, or did you leave it there?

It's normal for there to be some delay when playing content from the Premiere system, because when the Co-Star switch happens, the display has to adapt from receiving a 4K signal to receiving a 1080p signal. I don't know what would cause 4K playback to be slower, though.

For those seeing very long switch times, are you also allowing 24p output from the players? That would introduce a frame rate change as well as a resolution change, and could increase switch times. What happens is you change both players in the Co-Star pair to output 60fps instead?

For what it's worth, I have two Co-Star installations at home. In my bedroom, on my Vizio P50C1, startup of content that resides on the Premiere system takes about 7seconds including the Co-Star switch. 4K UHD content takes about 11 seconds (this is a Strato C, so I'm playing over the network, not from an internal hard drive), and 4K HDR takes about 13 seconds because the display has to switch to HDR mode.

In my theater, I'm using a Lumagen Radiance Pro to do the Co-Star switching, so my projector never sees a mode change. I believe the times are comparable or faster, but I have not measured them yet.

I am running at 60fps on both players in both installations. My bedroom is not a critical environment, and I find that the inverse telecine in my projector does a fine job, so there's no benefit to me to incur the delay that would be caused by switching frame rates.
 
Carajo, just to double-check: you are saying that a 4K movie takes ~10 seconds to start wyen you play it on your Co-Star paired Strato, but the same movie takes 3 seconds to play if you un-pair the systems? When you un-paired the systems, did you also take the Co-Star switch out of the chain, or did you leave it there?

Hi Mike. Yes 9-10 Seconds to play a 4K movie from Strato C/ Terra / costar Paired to M500 . I also have a Strato 6Tb standalone (unpaired) and when I last checked it was about 3-5 seconds to start a 4k movie but I am not at that location to test again. I am not sure if its the same movie. I will be testing this soon again.
 
Thanks for clarifying. If the movie you played on that standalone Strato is on its internal hard drive, then it would be expected that it would start more quickly than one that is coming over the network from the Terra. So that may be one explanation.
 
Thanks for explaining in more detail Mike, while I knew that rez and FR conversions take some time, didn't realize it could add that much to playback. Unfortunately, I like the 24p content......


Jim
 
It really varies depending upon devices, too. I found in my own theater that sending video through my audio receiver caused a significant added delay when frame rates changed, because when this happens, every device in the chain has to re-negotiate its connections. Reduce the number of devices, and you reduce the re-negotiation time. Going through the Radiance Pro, my audio is sent to my audio processor, while the video goes to the projector.

I also found that the negotiation time decreased when I switched the fiber optic HDMI connection to my projector to a different, more robust cable. If the signaling anywhere along the chain is struggling due to the cable, the negotiation time takes longer.

Lastly, I used to run 24p as well, because my former projector's inverse telecine would sometimes have issues. My current projector, however (Sony 885ES) does an excellent job converting the 60p signal back to 24p, so that I no longer see any benefit from sending 24p. Obviously YMMV depending upon your particular equipment.
 
It really varies depending upon devices, too. I found in my own theater that sending video through my audio receiver caused a significant added delay when frame rates changed, because when this happens, every device in the chain has to re-negotiate its connections. Reduce the number of devices, and you reduce the re-negotiation time. Going through the Radiance Pro, my audio is sent to my audio processor, while the video goes to the projector.

I also found that the negotiation time decreased when I switched the fiber optic HDMI connection to my projector to a different, more robust cable. If the signaling anywhere along the chain is struggling due to the cable, the negotiation time takes longer.

Lastly, I used to run 24p as well, because my former projector's inverse telecine would sometimes have issues. My current projector, however (Sony 885ES) does an excellent job converting the 60p signal back to 24p, so that I no longer see any benefit from sending 24p. Obviously YMMV depending upon your particular equipment.

Mike, I also have a Sony 885 and Lumagen Pro in our theater. You are outputting 4K60 from the Pro to the 885 for all sources? I should try that out. My switching is pretty good with the Lumagen (using Lumagen costar for my Alto/Strato). The delay from the Alto really is because of the disk server loading, etc. But even the disk server message pops up pretty quick to let me know it is loading the disc. The Sony is a huge improvement in switching compared to my last JVC.... Thanks. SJ
 
I am outputting 60p from the M500 and the Strato, going to the Radiance Pro, and then the Radiance Pro is sending the same to the 885. I am also doing HDR tone mapping in the Radiance Pro, so there's no mode switch for HDR.
 
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