Looking to get into KScape - looking for direction

[atldunns]

Hi All - I am a long time Home Theater enthusiast and looking to move into Kaleidoscope System. I have been a long time admirer.

I have traditionally been a DIY guy and have a pretty extensive Control4 System that I have done mostly myself (with basic help from a dealer).

I'm looking for some suggestions on how best to get into the KScape game, especially given the recent new platform, hardware, licensing issues, etc.

I have about 250 DVD's (mostly NOT Blu Ray). I'm not typically on the latest and greatest technology - I tend to stay one step behind and pick up nice gear heavily discounted as new stuff comes out. My current system is running on Component Video all centralized utilizing a matrix switch and Audio Switch. I have 3 viewing areas in the home running 5.1 or 7.1 all from the equipment closet, plus 2 other primary viewing areas. A total of 11 TV's in the home.

I would like to get all of my existing DVD's onto into a KScape System, and I would like to expand my BluRay collection in the near future. I also would like access to as much of this as possible in 2 other "vacation" homes. I understand this can be done (for some movies) with KScape.

I am considering upgrading my entire system to HDMI but that would require a heavier investment including a new HDMI Matrix switch and new Theater projector (at a minimum). I would love to get to 4K eventually, but that's probably a couple years away for me as I have no 4K TV's currently.

So with that basic background, can you experts help me decide:
1. What would be the best setup for me considering what I have, and a desire to optimize my investment.
2. Should I consider new or used equipment? If used, is this forum the best place to look for that?

Thanks
Mike D.

 

[Mr.Poindexter]

If you want to import DVD content, you will want a used system that is grandfathered. Also, to keep using your component video, you would want pre-sunset players, but I am not well versed on how many, if any M-class players predate the sunset period.

You could probably get by with a 1U server, upgraded with newer 4tb or 6tb drives, an M700 vault and a couple m300 players.

Used 4tb drives will be coming onto the market soon. I will be selling off at least 13 of them in a few weeks when I finish my server upsizing. M class players will likely come onto the market when the 4k players start shipping, but probably not many used vaults.

 

[dnanian]

There is a scaler called the "HDFury" that will convert HDMI to Component. I actually use the 3DFury/HDFury IV to convert from 1080p to 1080i because of my old Sony Qualia 006, which came out just before 1080p was common (the panel itself is 1080p, but the HDMI input is 1080i), and it works great for that...

 

[JerryL]

Hi Mike,
I think Kaleidescape is a fantastic system. But I think given the library of ~250 titles, need for multiple locations, desire to keep this to as minimal cost as possible, to my mind it adds up to going with one of the new streaming boxes like Roku or AppleTV etc.

Even second hand K equipment isn't inexpensive and its a proprietary system. The content stays locked into it.

Whereas with the AppleTV as an example, you can easily view on multiple devices and in multiple locations. The issue is access to broadband- but the new devices have hard drives and also can play off other local storage. So long as your internet connection isn't terribly slow I would recommend at least considering this path.

 

[atldunns]

Hi Mike,
I think Kaleidescape is a fantastic system. But I think given the library of ~250 titles, need for multiple locations, desire to keep this to as minimal cost as possible, to my mind it adds up to going with one of the new streaming boxes like Roku or AppleTV etc.

Even second hand K equipment isn't inexpensive and its a proprietary system. The content stays locked into it.

Whereas with the AppleTV as an example, you can easily view on multiple devices and in multiple locations. The issue is access to broadband- but the new devices have hard drives and also can play off other local storage. So long as your internet connection isn't terribly slow I would recommend at least considering this path.

Thanks Jerry. So I have plenty of experience with Roku, Apple TV, Fire TV, etc. (I have atleast 1 of each of these). Help me understand how I can stream my existing DVD's through these devices. I'm aware of Vudu and other options but I would have to rebuy these movies I believe (and I kind of like having physical copies - call me old school). Regardless, I'm not aware of how I could access the titles that I own through one of these streaming boxes without repurchase? Am I missing a option? Thanks!

 

[djb_rh]

Pretty sure he's saying it would be a lot cheaper to buy them again through iTunes. And more flexible. And, as much as I hate to say it, he's right.


--Donnie

 

[JerryL]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

I think you are looking at an outlay of ~$5k minimum for a K system. And thats for one location with 2-3 players not a player per TV. If you have multiple locations your costs really go up.

Even if you didn't have those streamer boxes already at a cost of say $150 per box (which is high) you're looking at $1,650 in new hardware (if you equip each tv wth its own box) vs the cost for Kscape. 250 movies @15 a piece (maybe Im off on this) = $3,750. Combined= $5,400.

 

[djb_rh]

The quality of the K experience will definitely be a good bit better. The question is whether the additional cost is worth it to you. To do all three locations and even MOST of the TVs will be a LOT more money.

The annoying part of the K experience for multiple locations of RIPPED movies is that you have to rip them to each system, too. Well, you *can* replicate between systems for the initial rip (ie. rip once, then replicate to the additional systems BEFORE you take them to the new location). But once the systems are spread out, K won't let you replicate further. You are then having to take your DVDs to each system to replicate. And note that for DVD ripping you also HAVE to buy grandfathered (ie. used) systems to start with, so no, or not much, warranty. You can get new drives with warranty, however.


--Donnie

 

[JerryL]

Agreed Donnie.

As I see it:

K Scape Pros:
Image / sound quality (though not if we're talking DVDs)

Still a better interface (but thats not the big lead it used to be)

Ability to directly play movie (the little things mean a lot and this is really nice!)

Local storage (new apple tv has some and has been pointed out apple tv can play off movies downloaded to your local computer)

Overall system refinement (it is really nice but you pay for the privilege).

RAID storage- robust- but again pricy if you are replacing out of warranty hard drives.

Cons:
Cost. To do 3 locations you are probably looking at 15k- bare minimum. Unless you need the quality of BR or have no way to get reasonable speed internet connection, this is a tremendous price to pay.

Image / sound quality (If you're upgrading from DVD the streaming quality will be superior but actual BR will be better than the streaming- of course we are at the edge of 4K....)

Streamers offer way more choices (hulu, prime etc)

Cloud storage. If your local storage fails, it just restores from the cloud. If you have no local storage or don't use it, you are not in the business of storing content- its someone else's problem.

Whether Apple, Google, Amazon, you have massive corporate interests backing your purchases- the odds of these companies remaining relevant to the market and not going under are much much higher than with Kaleidescape.

 

[djb_rh]

Note that the "local storage" pro to Kscape could be significant over streaming if either of your houses has bad Internet access. My mountain house, for example, just doesn't have enough bandwidth to even do DVD quality without occasional glitches over most streaming sources. *sigh*

Even still, if I hadn't already had K since before streaming was a reasonable option, even with a somewhat larger DVD collection (I think I'm in the 500s), I don't think I'd choose K now.

That's not K's fault, though. If they had won the DVD lawsuit and if the Bluray consortium hadn't closed up things such that the vault was required and if 4K didn't have such strong DRM that it made Premier obsolete as even storage for 4K content, well, I'd still be happy as a clam with K. But as it stands, the movie studios have taken away so much of what K was worth to *me*, that I'm more likely to move away than to continue to go that direction.

I basically feel like the life span of K, for me, has become whatever the life span of HDMI is. Once I can no longer reasonably feed HDMI into something, well, I'll be done with K. I'm sure that's a LONG way off, but for me I think I'm freezing my K hardware at HD. My 4K dollars, if/when I start spending them, will be somewhere else.


--Donnie

 

[atldunns]

Thank You all for the comments and perspectives. I think I will buy a legacy Premier system in my primary residence which I can connect into my matrix switch and have access to on all TV's in that location with a single player. And then use streaming boxes in other locations to access some percentage of my content that is in the cloud via VUDU or other service. I really like the Disc to Digital service, very inexpensive option. I think this will serve me best. I really want to get the KScape experience in my Home Theater.

 

[JerryL]

That sounds like the most cost effective way to go and it will let you get a taste of the experience. If you want more players they are easy to add. I don't think you will be disappointed with the product- its a fine luxury product- its just priced accordingly.

Donnie I completely understand where you're coming from. After Hurricane Sandy hit, we were without land lines for 3+ weeks- and it felt a lot longer. We have Direct TV as our TV provider and we use cable for internet so we fortunately never lost our live TV - but it was nice to have all the movies on the K system at the ready. I found it ironic that we were always told by the powers that be to have a land line in case of an emergency, for those 3 weeks, the only phones that worked were our cell phones. I even turned my iPhone into a hotspot for data.

 

[Funky Weasel]

Just throwing this out there, but converting 250 SD DVD's to HD using Vudu's Disc 2 Digital will only cost you $625 because you can convert them in batches of 10+ at half price. Your multi-location needs can be resolved with inexpensive streaming boxes or anything with a Vudu app installed.

Due to the size of your current DVD collection and budget minded design, forcing K-scape into your design might not make the most sense. But it is cool...

 

[JerryL]

Good suggestion with Vudu

 

[HiFiGuy1]

Just throwing this out there, but converting 250 SD DVD's to HD using Vudu's Disc 2 Digital will only cost you $625 because you can convert them in batches of 10+ at half price. Your multi-location needs can be resolved with inexpensive streaming boxes or anything with a Vudu app installed.

Due to the size of your current DVD collection and budget minded design, forcing K-scape into your design might not make the most sense. But it is cool...

The VUDU Disc-to-Digital would be a great start, even if the O.P. does migrate to Kaleidescape. The underlying Ultraviolet compatibility of both systems would allow one to move all compatible UV content onto a K server or servers in multiple locations whenever he gets on board. If he never got around to Kaleidescape, he'd still have all the movies available on VUDU. At a net price of about $2.50/movie @ Blu-ray quality, you can't beat the buy-in price, either.

 

[MikeKobb]

If you want to import DVD content, you will want a used system that is grandfathered. Also, to keep using your component video, you would want pre-sunset players, but I am not well versed on how many, if any M-class players predate the sunset period.

There are definitely M-class players that pre-date the analog sunset for Blu-ray. That's an important consideration for distribution over component video, because otherwise the content will be limited to 480i (ironically, lower resolution than 480p, which is permitted for DVD...)