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Kaleidescape today announced the launch of a new product line called Encore

I think a few years ago somebody here opened up a 1U and initially found much the same thing, off-the-shelf bits and pieces inside. But closer examination found boards that were Kaleidescape specific. Not sure about the 3U, maybe the same, looks generic everything inside, maybe not.

About disc temps, the 2TB certainly ran much cooler than 750GB, but I haven't noticed any significantly cooler temps with the 4TB. I still temp out in summer sometimes despite ample forced ventilation going through my server rack. 6TB would be nice, but now that 4K isn't happening with Premiere my 1U has enough capacity to keep going for a little longer than I was anticipating.
 
I agree. Didn't mean to imply that the two units were the exact same. But there is no doubt they are very similar designed for these types of operations. The drives are also designed for these applications. Idk basically arguing about nothing just voicing my frustrations of the lack of direction from the company.

My unit in a dedicated room peaks at about 45 C. The vault gets to 70 C, not sure why
 
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I guess my question comes down to what about me being grandfathered into imports. From what I understand we can only use the storage for the kstore stuff.

Can i not go with the encore system and reimport all my movies? (Im grandfathered into imports).

Your premier system is grandfathered, the encore system would not be grandfathered. Two different systems. Since they don't talk to each other, and if they are truly trying to move that way, K wouldn't/couldn't push them together even if asked.

I would mind less if it was time to upgrade to some sort of premier-plus line, or whatever, due to hardware limitations. However, a non-redundant server maxing at 4-drives ain't ever going to cut it without some obscene discounting (and throwing in a free rack.)
 
I keep checking back hoping to see a post from Jim making everything ok. So far, continued disappointment. In a perfect world maybe he's working with K behind the scenes to create some peace offering for Premiere customers - and they don't have a good answer yet.
 
Guys, i have been thinking long and hard about this... long and hard...

The majority of the titles we play are available in the store. There are a few GLARING omissions- Star Wars episode 4, the James Bond titles, every single Beavis and Butthead title *just search for "Beavis- trust me they aren't there)...

When you think about it, the path forward isn't as bad as it seems. Sure, the Premiere line is dead if we want 4K. But really, the cost of a new player was going to be a few thousand dollars anyway. Instead- a few thousand dollars and we get 4K in the form of a player and server in one that can download 4K movies, up to 100 of them in fact. A Stratos with a hard drive that can store 100 4K films is $4,500. And it can store and play any movie from the Kaleidescape store.

For those titles we own that the store does not have, we put them in a disk changer and they play from there. It takes some more time for the disk to load, but we still get the K experience. And each day that goes by, more and more titles are added to the store, meaning fewer and fewer chances of a disk access delay if we want to buy or upgrade to the store-sourced copies.

Granted- it infuriates me that I cannot download James Bond movies, Star Wars episode 4, any of the Beavis and Butthead titles, a whole host of nature shows,.. but the more extensive the store becomes the fewer and fewer disk slots I will need to use.

Think of it this way- you go through your premiere system and pay all the "disk to digital" charges and remove all the disks that you do not need anymore. One day you get a nice 4K tv and add a Stratos player. It fires up and starts downloading all the titles you bought in the K store. As long as your speeds are not so slow as to be impossible, eventually your titles are on there. And then you start to watch your viewing habits. One day, you realize you are sick of switching your systems and decide it is time to pull the plug on the premiere system- you simply group your vault or vaults away from the premiere system, in with the Stratos player and now you have your collection, just with a delay in accessing the old stuff. Chances are you were accessing the old stuff less and less often anyway...

Because eventually, I know K will find a way to get all the episode compilations and the movie of Beavis and Butthead in to the store... they will not rest until that happens because they have to. Their survival as a company depends on it.

K has definitely done something that will either make or break it as a company. The 4K standard is likely the final standard that anyone will care about buying. We have lossless audio and Atmos, what more is there? 8K? What kind of an anal-retentive nerd would want 8K?...

So the problem that K now faces is the inevitable competition from EVERYONE else. Literally everyone- Apple, Amazon, Netflix, anyone who wants to sell a movie through the internet will be coming on if 4K is going to be a downloadable product. So they have to differentiate by interface, experience, etc. They have to be that extra 5% that a true enthusiast with money to spend will care about. Personally, the experience of switching between movies without a delay with DVD quality was enough for me to get on board. But with 4K it will be different- there is no disk-swapping inconvenience that K has overcome that they can market as a benefit. So that's where the store's completeness really makes or breaks this new Encore system- you can't sell "everything but James Bond" or "90% of what is out there" when you have a $200 Apple TV nipping at your heels.

In fact, what would actually be really cool is if K went nuclear on getting a complete movie store- all titles all the time. Think about it- if K could position themselves as having the best store in terms of both completeness and quality, its a win for everyone. Obscure titles, foreign titles, cartoons along with the latest titles. Setup in such a way that a salesperson can sell "The Kaleidescape store is the most complete, most extensive media store available- better than the shelves at Best buy, better than iTunes- simply the best.

The way I see it, K has not only introduced the Encore systems, but they have doubled-down on the strength of their store. They have forced themselves to expand it to the point where everything is available in their store. They are positioning themselves to be the top-end movie player system that no longer imports disks- so they better have top-end content. And if they do have every title, then we don't need our premiere systems... and that includes Beavis and Butthead. (You listening K?)
 
iansalv -- First off you aren't really thinking when you say the end will be 4k. The end will be when we no longer watch movies or we are all dead LOL. What have we learned from Betamax...VHS...DVD...Blueray...4k....? That technology is always moving forward and we buy into it. Regardless

How many of us really need 4k??? Do I really need that classic 80's film in 4k or would my dvd imported copy to the server work just fine? Quality is a huge thing but isn't everything. I would rather store 10 classics vs 1 digital film that wasnt filmed at 4k. Of course I could probably upgrade a ton of them but for $3-$8? Did you know that the quality is the same unless you update it from dvd to blueray? All your buying is a non-disc version of the same thing. Which if your grandfathered into disk imports for dvd you already have it. I would rather get more movies in the $5 movie bin.

transepoch -- I guess why would it hurt them to not allow disk imports from Dvds?(grandfathered into it) How could the hardware not play it? Also why couldn't the Encore Line talk to the Primer line? Of course there would be limits like if you want to play a 4k video you have to use the Encore Player. Other then that you should be able to use Encore and Primer for DVD/BR/DigitalStore.


My thoughts are this. K will have to do some serious thinking if they want to keep the customers. That or I might as well turn in my 10-15k system for a $200 Apple TV. Or hey I could just build a PLEX server for basically free.

PS
Bye bye to the redundant hard drive raid. Something that is protecting us from needing to re-download a whole movie collection / importing. Something that would take days/months to recover.
 
Try looking at the non US store (where there actually one) and your argument falls apart, sorry but K's customer base is wider than the US.
 
How many of us really need 4k??? Do I really need that classic 80's film in 4k or would my dvd imported copy to the server work just fine? Quality is a huge thing but isn't everything. I would rather store 10 classics vs 1 digital film that wasnt filmed at 4k. Of course I could probably upgrade a ton of them but for $3-$8? Did you know that the quality is the same unless you update it from dvd to blueray? All your buying is a non-disc version of the same thing. Which if your grandfathered into disk imports for dvd you already have it. I would rather get more movies in the $5 movie bin.

transepoch -- I guess why would it hurt them to not allow disk imports from Dvds?(grandfathered into it) How could the hardware not play it? Also why couldn't the Encore Line talk to the Primer line? Of course there would be limits like if you want to play a 4k video you have to use the Encore Player. Other then that you should be able to use Encore and Primer for DVD/BR/

I know they are the same quality- I. Saying you could reduce the number of movies that have to be accessed from the vault
 
I have owned a K system for quite some time, upgraded players and servers over the years. I can say however this move by K has left me rethinking doing business with them. I reached out to support asking them to send an email with all details of new line and what that means to premiere owners. No reply. I even waited till cedia was over to post here on the forum allowing them time to answer. As a business owner the lack of communication to current customers and the overall attitude of what appears to be lack of concern for current customers leaves me feeling as if they do not care. Malcolm is no longer running the company and it shows. They introduce a new system that in effect outdates all current K systems but fail to communicate with current customers what it means for them. I am certain some customers will not care but I think there will be enough that ultimately K will face challenges. As a business the customers you already have are the best customers to keep happy. If you do they will continue to support and buy more products from you. The lack of any communication means K had no plan for premiere customers. They are probably finally realizing the catastrophe they have on there hands and will roll something out in the next few weeks. All around a poor way to do business. For some customer, me included, replacing my system with the new line is not an option even with trade in deals etc.
 
Non US customers even more neglected

What is the timeline for expanding the non-us store?

The usual - we are working on it, licencing difficulties etc. etc. so in reality no progress and no concrete communication or commitment after a year. Due to K's implementation of the store non US credit cards don't work in the US store unlike with Amazon.com where I can easily buy new releases from the US and around the world to be delivered to my door.
 
I have owned a K system for quite some time, upgraded players and servers over the years. I can say however this move by K has left me rethinking doing business with them. I reached out to support asking them to send an email with all details of new line and what that means to premiere owners. No reply. I even waited till cedia was over to post here on the forum allowing them time to answer. As a business owner the lack of communication to current customers and the overall attitude of what appears to be lack of concern for current customers leaves me feeling as if they do not care. Malcolm is no longer running the company and it shows. They introduce a new system that in effect outdates all current K systems but fail to communicate with current customers what it means for them. I am certain some customers will not care but I think there will be enough that ultimately K will face challenges. As a business the customers you already have are the best customers to keep happy. If you do they will continue to support and buy more products from you. The lack of any communication means K had no plan for premiere customers. They are probably finally realizing the catastrophe they have on there hands and will roll something out in the next few weeks. All around a poor way to do business. For some customer, me included, replacing my system with the new line is not an option even with trade in deals etc.

I suspect Cheena has gotten quite a few emails from Premiere system owners asking what is happening to the Premiere Line - I know he got one from me! I am still waiting to here back.

John
 
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I'm a Kaleidescape Owner and Dealer since the Beginning. We have no Store here in Austria and what should I do with my 2.500 CDs on my Premier System...."No" Statement from Kaleidescape is a bad Business Solution.
 
I think a lot of people who are in the "it won't matter to lose the Premier line in the long run camp" are forgetting that they are abandoning audio. The Alto line won't do music at all, right?

The idea that the store will get better because it has to is circular reasoning. How about a better interface like being able to search by price? That was there but has been removed. It feels like after the loss in court, Kaleidescape lost their balls to push back against the studios and the studios know that they can say "no" for anything and Kaleidescape will eventually have to buckle. They did that with Disney by forcing all customers to forever lose their grandfathered rights to download even one Disney title. Kaleidescape will never have the bargaining clout that Apple will, so who do you think will have a better shot at getting all the titles in their store? I don't expect Disney to suddenly let Kaleidescape have Song of the South.

A good question would be "I understand how we are being told that Premier cannot hold 4K content for copyright issues, but why can't the Encore line see the Premier server and play back content that was loaded onto Premier? That isn't a technical problem - it is a decision to not allow it, even if it was content purchased from the Kaleidescape store andnot from the old grandfathered disc loaded content? Why does a new premier server without the ability to load DVD suffer from the same restrictions that the Encore line won't play back Blu-ray or DVD content downloaded from the store from that server?

I have 60TB of data that won't be recognized by Encore. If I "upgrade" it all, it won't fit onto their server. If I don't migrate it, the system cannot see it.

The studios think they have an uncrackable system to secure their 4K content. They thought that about Blu-ray. They thought that about DVD. They thought Macrovision would protect their VHS content. They have been wrong before and 4K will get cracked, but we will be hamstrung by their content control paranoia and our systems will not perform as they should because of it. It will be frustrating to watch people with home brew systems do what we cannot.
 
Well put 'Mr Poindexter' Strikes me there is / has been a lack of cohesive strategy (customer and technical) as the focus has been on survival for so long rather than on creating an integrated product line. I do use my systems for music simply because of the interface but the fact that it relies on having physical media it means I have to burn CD's if I want to add new content as more and more I use flac based HD dowmloads.
For music my system of choice is Linn who provide constant upgrade paths and multiple price points for their hardware with full support for open systems to control them including Plex - A Premier league company when it comes to being customer centric and inovative.
 
A good question would be "I understand how we are being told that Premier cannot hold 4K content for copyright issues, but why can't the Encore line see the Premier server and play back content that was loaded onto Premier? That isn't a technical problem - it is a decision to not allow it, even if it was content purchased from the Kaleidescape store andnot from the old grandfathered disc loaded content? Why does a new premier server without the ability to load DVD suffer from the same restrictions that the Encore line won't play back Blu-ray or DVD content downloaded from the store from that server?

Bingo

I'm holding out hope that there is a premier line upgrade path. Nothing else makes sense to all the non-US customers, and to me
 
I think a lot of people who are in the "it won't matter to lose the Premier line in the long run camp" are forgetting that they are abandoning audio. The Alto line won't do music at all, right?

The idea that the store will get better because it has to is circular reasoning. How about a better interface like being able to search by price? That was there but has been removed. It feels like after the loss in court, Kaleidescape lost their balls to push back against the studios and the studios know that they can say "no" for anything and Kaleidescape will eventually have to buckle. They did that with Disney by forcing all customers to forever lose their grandfathered rights to download even one Disney title. Kaleidescape will never have the bargaining clout that Apple will, so who do you think will have a better shot at getting all the titles in their store? I don't expect Disney to suddenly let Kaleidescape have Song of the South.

A good question would be "I understand how we are being told that Premier cannot hold 4K content for copyright issues, but why can't the Encore line see the Premier server and play back content that was loaded onto Premier? That isn't a technical problem - it is a decision to not allow it, even if it was content purchased from the Kaleidescape store andnot from the old grandfathered disc loaded content? Why does a new premier server without the ability to load DVD suffer from the same restrictions that the Encore line won't play back Blu-ray or DVD content downloaded from the store from that server?

I have 60TB of data that won't be recognized by Encore. If I "upgrade" it all, it won't fit onto their server. If I don't migrate it, the system cannot see it.

The studios think they have an uncrackable system to secure their 4K content. They thought that about Blu-ray. They thought that about DVD. They thought Macrovision would protect their VHS content. They have been wrong before and 4K will get cracked, but we will be hamstrung by their content control paranoia and our systems will not perform as they should because of it. It will be frustrating to watch people with home brew systems do what we cannot.

I know.... I was just trying to do one of those "look on the bright side" posts...

What truly irritates me is that we can't have a Stratos just play back from an existing premiere system and hold the 4K content on it's local server. No reason we can't have that- no reason we can't accept the limitation that 4K will only store on a Stratos or any Encore server, or heck- anything except disk rips going forward, and the Stratos plays everything through its nice interface.

If K wants to come forward and say it is a licensing issue, cool. But if it is a deliberate act by K to force people forward they are truly screwing themselves. On Sunday I hesitated in recommending the new system to a friend who can obviously afford it and is interested in a new K system. These issue sneed to be addressed because as good as a salesperson is in selling the system, a K-owning friend is better...
 
I know.... I was just trying to do one of those "look on the bright side" posts...

What truly irritates me is that we can't have a Stratos just play back from an existing premiere system and hold the 4K content on it's local server. No reason we can't have that- no reason we can't accept the limitation that 4K will only store on a Stratos or any Encore server, or heck- anything except disk rips going forward, and the Stratos plays everything through its nice interface.

If K wants to come forward and say it is a licensing issue, cool. But if it is a deliberate act by K to force people forward they are truly screwing themselves. On Sunday I hesitated in recommending the new system to a friend who can obviously afford it and is interested in a new K system. These issue sneed to be addressed because as good as a salesperson is in selling the system, a K-owning friend is better...

I think we all agree with you that some reasonable adaption HAD to be in the works for the K owners that made the company. Looking less likely now.
 
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Have been following Kaleidescape's PR release and this forum since CEDIA.

Jurassic World, SW:The Force Awakens, etc. are all produced and theatrically released in 3D.

So, from my personal stand point and contrary to Kaleidescape, 3D lives on.

And yet as far as I can tell, there has been no mention of new K 3D capabilities in any of the CEDIA related correspondence.

Seems to me Kaleidescape's multiple video server competitors will owe K a nice 'Thank You' Christmas card this holiday season.
 
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