It is because of the codec. The Kalahari video is MPEG-2, while the newer videos use a codec that requires more horsepower to decode for a CPU and the older players don't have a chip able to decode via hardware.
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Kaleidescape launches movie download store
- Thread starter josh
- Start date
You used to be able to download from the Apple store to your PC/Mac running iTunes and stream from there to an AppleTV. Is that not still possible (I haven't tried recently)?
Apple TV & streaming music from the internet or your home server via your Apple devices is fine and hey most of the time it works although the occasional system reboot is needed to reconnect etc. With the K-Scape it just works and there is no fine about it or reboot needed. Comparing apples with apples (pun intended) is just fine but if you buy, own, love and cherish a K-Scape system and all that it delivers then that set's you apart and it is that differentiator that we all enjoy!
Great point HRoberts. But one problem with that is many people probably don't know how to set that up and just rely on streaming. Case in point- how many people have CDs already ripped into iTunes but buy the same content over again direct to their iPhone because its simply easier. I know several who do this.
And I completely agree with you Mark. I love the K experience and so does my family. It and Apple TV have a place in the home. But if I have to choose I will go with K.
And I completely agree with you Mark. I love the K experience and so does my family. It and Apple TV have a place in the home. But if I have to choose I will go with K.
I think Apple has done a good enough job with what they do and getting the costs to where for MOST people now it's a matter of whether you want to *own* a large library of movies or not.
I used to be the latter. But the costs are getting so out of whack to continue to OWN a large library that I'm not so sure anymore. I still like my Kscape and will continue to keep it and maintain it, but if I had to choose one or the other right *now* and live without the other one? I'd pick the AppleTV.
Biggest reason? I can't take my Kscape with me when I travel (not reasonably enough, anyway). The Kscape ain't portable. The AppleTV is as long as you have reasonable Internet available, and most of the time that's not an issue anymore. YMMV.
--Donnie
I used to be the latter. But the costs are getting so out of whack to continue to OWN a large library that I'm not so sure anymore. I still like my Kscape and will continue to keep it and maintain it, but if I had to choose one or the other right *now* and live without the other one? I'd pick the AppleTV.
Biggest reason? I can't take my Kscape with me when I travel (not reasonably enough, anyway). The Kscape ain't portable. The AppleTV is as long as you have reasonable Internet available, and most of the time that's not an issue anymore. YMMV.
--Donnie
UV for downloaded movies has increased the flexibility of the K system though I expect many owners will use a combination K and Apple TV.
I expect as the year progresses so will the download store... more studios and more territories.
The home cinema world seems to moving very fast at the moment. 4K is coming round the corner and it is honking its hooter quite loudly. The studios must be looking forward to selling all those movies again.
A 4K Apple TV and a 4K movie library within the next 12 months?
I expect as the year progresses so will the download store... more studios and more territories.
The home cinema world seems to moving very fast at the moment. 4K is coming round the corner and it is honking its hooter quite loudly. The studios must be looking forward to selling all those movies again.
A 4K Apple TV and a 4K movie library within the next 12 months?
Sure, but you probably had Kscape before the Apple stuff got this good. What if you were making your purchase decision now? Sounds like you'd probably go with the Kscape again, and I'd get that. But you have to think that a LOT of people would say "crap, I can buy a LOT of movies on iTunes for the five figures that the Kscape costs me, and the hardware is nearly free in comparison." *shrug*
To me Kscape is moving more toward the Prima end of the world, unfortunately. The hardware costs should be coming down, but they simply aren't....
--Donnie
I don't think they can come down. Kscape probably has development costs that are comparable to Apple's (for the AppleTV), but has far fewer units to amortize them over.
Same reason SPARC and Power microprocessors will never be as cheap as Intel's. I suspect that Kscape would have to change their support policies/culture before they could accommodate a mass market as well, and that would likely alienate the existing customer base.
Kscape's prices for (downloadable) content, OTOH, seem to be very reasonable. The question seems to be whether they can negotiate deals with enough studios for a large enough catalog to do enough volume for the store to be viable.
Donnie:
I agree in some respect that ATV is less expensive, but I have to disagree on the cost issue - that K is becoming more expensive. Kaleidescape has actually become far more affordable. I just ran a quick MSRP comparison between 3U server pricing of 2008 to 2013. I think the info will surprise you.
As an FYI, I haven't pulled the MSRP quotes from the appropriate forum posts, but I'm doing this quickly. Anyone can verify this information. I have rounded the numbers for ease of math. I also only consider total useable storage.
2008
3U server with 14 1TB drives ($24k base + 11 additional drives @ $1,245)
$37,500
storage + server cost/dvd = $19.40 (assumes 150 DVDs/TB)
storage cost/dvd = $9.70
server cost/dvd = $10
2013
3U server with 14 4TB drives ($33k - this was extrapolated from MSRP for 8 or 14 drive configuration of 3U server with 3TB drives in 2012 so may be off)
storage + server cost/dvd = $4.50 (assumes 150 DVDs/TB)
storage cost/dvd = $2.40
server cost/dvd = $2.00
Factoring in the cost of the server and the drives, we went from $20/DVD to $5/DVD to store a DVD. We also see that the server contributes a mere $2/DVD stored in 2013 compared with the $10/DVD it cost in 2008.
I didn't double check the math and it may be off, but the order of magnitude shows a clear cost decline for comparable K systems from 2008 to 2013.
If we went further back to 2003 when a 5U server could hold only 3.3TB of storage, the numbers are even more pronounced.
The prices have greatly improved and so has the product. None of this accounts for player pricing or the cost of storing bluray.
I did the math on AppleTV before streaming was possible when I was contemplating K back in 2007, and K still made sense. ATV didn't work then because of storage costs. Some of my original assumptions still hold true, even though streaming is now possible. First consider what films and/or tv shows are available for streaming. The optical disc format offers far more films/tv shows.
Second, when I considered the issue back in 2007, I had about 1500 titles, including many tv shows. At an average price of $15 title (that wouldn't cover a tv show purchase, however), it would cost me $22,500 to have that same content available for streaming, if all titles were available. Now of course there are now digital codes with purchases and I may not want all of the content that I have on disc, but replacing the library to a streaming version is not cheap.
If I had a 200 disc collection, then perhaps, K is pricey for convenience. But you can now purchase a 1U 4TB server (do they come in 2 drive configs??) and player for probably around $15k. So the $3k streaming option for 200 discs is certainly much less than an entry $15k system. If we look at features between AppleTV streaming and K, there is no comparison, but that wasn't the original issue anyway.
My main point is that K is not going the route of Prima, but is actually becoming more affordable. With the 5U to 3U trade up or with the 3U to 3U trade up to swap out drives, plus the new 3 year warranty, there's even more value.
I have Roku, AppleTV and use netflix streaming (had to watch House of Cards) and those services just don't compare to K for the experience. But they are all far less expensive. K has its place in our home and will stay.
Jay
I agree in some respect that ATV is less expensive, but I have to disagree on the cost issue - that K is becoming more expensive. Kaleidescape has actually become far more affordable. I just ran a quick MSRP comparison between 3U server pricing of 2008 to 2013. I think the info will surprise you.
As an FYI, I haven't pulled the MSRP quotes from the appropriate forum posts, but I'm doing this quickly. Anyone can verify this information. I have rounded the numbers for ease of math. I also only consider total useable storage.
2008
3U server with 14 1TB drives ($24k base + 11 additional drives @ $1,245)
$37,500
storage + server cost/dvd = $19.40 (assumes 150 DVDs/TB)
storage cost/dvd = $9.70
server cost/dvd = $10
2013
3U server with 14 4TB drives ($33k - this was extrapolated from MSRP for 8 or 14 drive configuration of 3U server with 3TB drives in 2012 so may be off)
storage + server cost/dvd = $4.50 (assumes 150 DVDs/TB)
storage cost/dvd = $2.40
server cost/dvd = $2.00
Factoring in the cost of the server and the drives, we went from $20/DVD to $5/DVD to store a DVD. We also see that the server contributes a mere $2/DVD stored in 2013 compared with the $10/DVD it cost in 2008.
I didn't double check the math and it may be off, but the order of magnitude shows a clear cost decline for comparable K systems from 2008 to 2013.
If we went further back to 2003 when a 5U server could hold only 3.3TB of storage, the numbers are even more pronounced.
The prices have greatly improved and so has the product. None of this accounts for player pricing or the cost of storing bluray.
I did the math on AppleTV before streaming was possible when I was contemplating K back in 2007, and K still made sense. ATV didn't work then because of storage costs. Some of my original assumptions still hold true, even though streaming is now possible. First consider what films and/or tv shows are available for streaming. The optical disc format offers far more films/tv shows.
Second, when I considered the issue back in 2007, I had about 1500 titles, including many tv shows. At an average price of $15 title (that wouldn't cover a tv show purchase, however), it would cost me $22,500 to have that same content available for streaming, if all titles were available. Now of course there are now digital codes with purchases and I may not want all of the content that I have on disc, but replacing the library to a streaming version is not cheap.
If I had a 200 disc collection, then perhaps, K is pricey for convenience. But you can now purchase a 1U 4TB server (do they come in 2 drive configs??) and player for probably around $15k. So the $3k streaming option for 200 discs is certainly much less than an entry $15k system. If we look at features between AppleTV streaming and K, there is no comparison, but that wasn't the original issue anyway.
My main point is that K is not going the route of Prima, but is actually becoming more affordable. With the 5U to 3U trade up or with the 3U to 3U trade up to swap out drives, plus the new 3 year warranty, there's even more value.
I have Roku, AppleTV and use netflix streaming (had to watch House of Cards) and those services just don't compare to K for the experience. But they are all far less expensive. K has its place in our home and will stay.
Jay
Transepoch
Well-known member
Fully loaded 3U is only 32k, so that brings it down a little further.
The other reason I don't see raw prices coming down is because of all the added post-sale services included. Namely, the movie guide, which until recently, even included round-trip shipping within CONUS for importing loaners.
The other reason I don't see raw prices coming down is because of all the added post-sale services included. Namely, the movie guide, which until recently, even included round-trip shipping within CONUS for importing loaners.
Jay, I didn't mean to say Kscape was "more expensive", just that it's "so expensive" that it might as well be as much as Prima because it's getting to where only the same set of people are going to care to buy it as Prima.
I'm not sure I understand your cost analysis, either. The problem, IMHO, is that the cost of the movie is *roughly* the same whether you buy optical disk or K download or ATV download. So that part of the equation is moot. And since most people can and will stream, they don't *need* local storage. Yes, availability is an issue, as people who want to download to K are finding, as are Prima customers, as are ATV customers. But one thing I'm pretty sure of...more content is going to be available on ATV than any of the other systems at some point in the future. We could debate that, I'm sure, but that's my feeling, anyway.
The point here is that while the set of people who *can* pay five figures for a movie storage device is somewhat large, the amount of them who would be WILLING to do it given the other options is shrinking. If Kscape prices had come down dramatically in the last ten years, that may not be the case. But they've really only come down the same amount as storage has. But there's a large server and player cost on *top* of the storage that's still a MAJOR problem. I mean right now you're in for $100/TV to do an ATV. You're in for a few grand JUST for a stupid player with Kscape. And the player ONLY does Kscape. I still gotta spend that $100 for *something* if I want Netflix streaming or MLB.TV or whatever, too.
Look, I love my K system. I do. It does what it does SO AMAZINGLY WELL. But what it does is getting quite limited relatively speaking, and is quite the cost proposition.
--Donnie
I'm not sure I understand your cost analysis, either. The problem, IMHO, is that the cost of the movie is *roughly* the same whether you buy optical disk or K download or ATV download. So that part of the equation is moot. And since most people can and will stream, they don't *need* local storage. Yes, availability is an issue, as people who want to download to K are finding, as are Prima customers, as are ATV customers. But one thing I'm pretty sure of...more content is going to be available on ATV than any of the other systems at some point in the future. We could debate that, I'm sure, but that's my feeling, anyway.
The point here is that while the set of people who *can* pay five figures for a movie storage device is somewhat large, the amount of them who would be WILLING to do it given the other options is shrinking. If Kscape prices had come down dramatically in the last ten years, that may not be the case. But they've really only come down the same amount as storage has. But there's a large server and player cost on *top* of the storage that's still a MAJOR problem. I mean right now you're in for $100/TV to do an ATV. You're in for a few grand JUST for a stupid player with Kscape. And the player ONLY does Kscape. I still gotta spend that $100 for *something* if I want Netflix streaming or MLB.TV or whatever, too.
Look, I love my K system. I do. It does what it does SO AMAZINGLY WELL. But what it does is getting quite limited relatively speaking, and is quite the cost proposition.
--Donnie
cinelife
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Not a bad idea, but not yet available. For me, I check to see if an upcoming release on Amazon is a Warner or New line release, and if it is I assume it will be released same day on the K Store.
Jim
Jim
I would like to have the availability to down load movies and have them available at the same time they open in theaters. My idea would be maybe start a trickle down load and have the last few minutes down load at the time of the theater release.
I have a high end theater in my basement. We like to see movies when they are new. However, we more often than not like to watch movies in our own theater than going out to see it.
I'd be willing to pay a premium for that kind of service.
I'm not currently a K owner, but plan to be an owner in the near future. I want to see more studios sign on to the down load store before I take the purchase leap.
I have a high end theater in my basement. We like to see movies when they are new. However, we more often than not like to watch movies in our own theater than going out to see it.
I'd be willing to pay a premium for that kind of service.
I'm not currently a K owner, but plan to be an owner in the near future. I want to see more studios sign on to the down load store before I take the purchase leap.
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cinelife
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We are all with you on that idea!
Unfortunately, not going to happen anytime soon considering Prima Cinema is already working that angle and the cost to buy in is steep for the average person ($35K buy-in, $500 a movie ($600 3D). Now THAT'S a premium!Jim
I can wait the month for the release, thank you . Movies are released so quickly these days compared to a few years back.
My setup at home rivals any theater (thanks Jim) with full control of the environment and patrons. Now that K has added the download store, it's even easier. They're working on other movie houses so hopefully soon I can give my amazon account a break. It's really a fantastic service. I do think you'll be disappointed
. Movies are released so quickly these days compared to a few years back. My setup at home rivals any theater (thanks Jim) with full control of the environment and patrons. Now that K has added the download store, it's even easier. They're working on other movie houses so hopefully soon I can give my amazon account a break. It's really a fantastic service. I do think you'll be disappointed
I, too, wish that they would come out with a "coming soon" tab on the KStore so you can pre-order movies and they would automatically download the movie at midnight on that Monday (Tuesday, really) when the movie can be sold. Would be great to wake up to it in the AM...
