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General help with movie store questions especially rental

I am not a current Kaleidescapeian (yet) but certainly looking into the possibility of joining the platform. I have been getting quality help from the hardware side of things on the forum that is helping me me understand the choices I have. I understand that this platform comes with an up front commitment in terms of hardware cost but once committed the movie store is the "maintenance cost" meaning that I am committed to this store to enjoy the experience. Hence wanted to get some of my questions answered as I keep browsing the store.

I understand that the store has many specials going on often, but coming from he world of Redbox, apple iTunes rental, gamely rental etc, here are a few questions to help me understand once I am committed to the platform what to expect from the store.

1. Does the store do bundled promotions? (for example I just saw an apple iTunes recently that said Quite place 1 & 2 for like 10 bucks or something). The question is more about the bundle and not really about the price (Are there movie bundle that would cost less than buying the movies individually)

2. Apple Ituens start with a rental of usually $5.99 and then as the movie gets older it goes down to $2.99 or $1.99 . Is that a similar experience with the K store or is it the standard $7.95 no matter how long the movie has been out? (I completely understand that K is primarily for the movie collectors but I dont buy all my movies but more a rental for most of how I want to enjoy all the movies)

3. Any patterns on when rentals will be available for a movie and also what format the rental will be available? Example of why I ask this is the movie Free Guy was available in the full format and Atmos for sale for 24.99 but the rental is ONLY the HD for $7.95. Any reason why the 4k and Atmos format is not available for rental? Is this normal for rentals ?

I understand that a lot of this depends on what the movie companies wants to do and how they want to change it anytime they want but from my side my thought process is that once that I am committed to this platform the store is my only source and hence trying to understand this space to what it is today. Thanks for your team in advance!
 

cinelife

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Authorized Kaleidescape Dealer
I don't remember seeing any bundles. Doesn't mean there weren't any in the past, but I don't remember seeing any in the Store to this point. Obviously doesn't exclude bundles in the future.

Although $7.95 seems to be the standard rental fee, there are a few less than $6.00, but I don't recall seeing the type of reductions you mentioned.
Haven't seen a fixed pattern, but haven't really thought about it, maybe someone else pays closer attention. It's my understanding the Studios determine the base rental amount and resolution, not sure how much influence K has on that decision.

When you don't own K, it can be difficult to accept some of the pricing in the Store (I guess for some it can be difficult even if you own K:)), but Kaleidescape is not positioned like the services you noted above, it is still a niche business that focus on quality, and for those that want the best user experience available, Kaleidescape is the answer, and there's a price to own the best.....there always is.....

Jim
 
Thank you, Jim for taking the time to answer my questions. I completely understand that this is a niche market and there is a price to pay for the experience. I am really not questing the price but was trying to see if there are similar "experiences" like the other markets (bundled sales, lower rental after a while etc). There is a cost to enter this niche platform and another to "maintain" the platform and I am trying to figure out if I can do both :) . I am coming up with reasons to move to the platform but then the cost to stay on the platform is sort of in a land I am not used to and hence the dilemma to move forward. Its just training my mindset that if I jump on this platform then there are certain things that I need to "accept" for the bet experience.
 

JohnJ

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To answer your question about only HD being available for “Free Guy” - at the very beginning there was one studio that only had HD versions for rent (Disney) but this was very quickly corrected. Recently I haven’t seen any titles recently except for the title you highlighted. This makes me thing it is an error but I haven’t checked on it to verify. Also, this title is available on Vudu for rental in 4K.

I will add that Disney is the one studio that has some titles that do not have the rental option. I haven’t tried to quantify what is missing nor have I checked to see if this is The same for other streaming services.

John
 

Transepoch

Well-known member
I would add to what Jim & John a reminder that rental only hit GA at the end of January, so we don't have a long history to really see what kind of pricing trends may emerge.

As to bundling, I think the closest we get is how you usually get all the resolutions at once, and there has been a few sales (Tolkien, Harry Potter, etc.) where K gives deeper cuts on a collection of titles than usual. Beyond that, extended editions tend to confuse the store (so buying one gives you the other... sometimes,) but no other one-purchase-gives-multiple-titles sort of thing.
 
Thank you John and @Transepoch for the additional details. It’s a premium platform for sure and I am trying to see if this is a platform that I can afford because even after buying the hardware there is the software cost for it to all come together. I guess this is where I am still nervous if this is an affordable platform for me in the long run for my needs. Thanks to members here like you that help to answer all questions.
 
One more question from a store perspective. Jurassic park is the movie that got me dreaming of home theater back when I was a kid and to date this is a movie that is special for me. On the store I see that this movie is not in DTX X. I know the disk format does have DTS X but would K get it do you know? Again I am being very specific and asking about specific movies but before a commitment here I am trying to see what are “some” of the compromises from K I have to accept and move.
 
I think I answered my own question by doing a simple Jurassic park search in the forum and a ton of this discussion already from 2018. Wish it had the DTS X by now. Same with Matrix and the Atmos mix.
 

JohnJ

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I will add a little bit of history on immersive audio on the 4K movies on the Store. For a long time neither Fox nor Universal had immersive sound tracks on 4K titles. That changed finally and new releases started getting the Dolby Atmos tracks. K said that they were working with both studios to get these tracks on older movies. This has been happening fairly consistently (although slowly) on Fox titles. However, old Universal titles have not been added very often.

DTS:X soundtracks are another issue but relatively there are very few offered even On disc. You can do a search for these on the Store or with the app:


Also, here is a link to a thread that has the history of the K Store:


John
 

MikeKobb

Well-known member
◥ ◣ Kaleidescape, Inc.
One other factor that you may wish to consider is what I believe is a unique feature on our platform. When you rent a movie from us, you usually have the option to apply a portion of your rental fee to the subsequent purchase of the movie. It's a nice option if you want to watch something that you're not sure you'll want to keep and return to again later. This discount is usually available for 30 days from the date of rental, but this may vary. We show you when the offer will expire.

(This feature applies to "normal" rentals and not the premium rentals of brand-new movies. Those have a "Premium Rental" banner across the top of the cover to distinguish them.)
 

audioguy123

Well-known member
Thank you, Mike. This is good information to know and an unique option.
First of all, you asked some great questions and one who is doing their "due diligence".

But let me add a slightly different perspective. I was a K user for a number of years, but got upset when they changed to the "Store" business model that moved in the direction of me not being able to play my existing disc using the K Interface. So I sold my hardware (these years later, that turned out to be a BAD move).

I have been away for about 5 years and during that time, went to the ripping model (ripped about 600 movies). And it "worked" - for the most part. But every time I went to a dealer or to client's home (I do audio calibration - part time), and they had a K system, the drooling would begin. There is simply NOTHING like the K experience: The 13,000 film library; Scenes; Scripts; Ease of use; etc). And while I suspect some K executives might think otherwise, there is simply NO cost justification. NONE. That mostly now applies to the cost-of-entry expense (and on-going hardware Terra Server upgrades), but to questions about things like their rental strategy as well.

During my away time, there were 4 or 5 "negatives" (price being one of them), that kept me away. Some of them have greatly improved (e.g. number of studios they have), but some others have not. BUT, apparently when I want something (even subconsciously), I seem to always come up with a justification. In my specific case, it was two things: (1) the "reduced" cost of entry to the Terra Server approach - the new 12TB model; and (2) the fact that I could have any of K's 13,000 movies in my home ~10 minutes after I decided I wanted it. Those two things basically gave me my personal 4K version of Redbox (but not needing to get in the car to get my movie). AND, given the above and that, in my case, I didn't need instant access to all of my movies, I could quite easily live with the 12TB server - forever.

So now I am an owner (and excited to be one again). But, for the most part, the source of my original objections are still present. Why? I just WANTED it.
 
First of all, you asked some great questions and one who is doing their "due diligence".

But let me add a slightly different perspective. I was a K user for a number of years, but got upset when they changed to the "Store" business model that moved in the direction of me not being able to play my existing disc using the K Interface. So I sold my hardware (these years later, that turned out to be a BAD move).

I have been away for about 5 years and during that time, went to the ripping model (ripped about 600 movies). And it "worked" - for the most part. But every time I went to a dealer or to client's home (I do audio calibration - part time), and they had a K system, the drooling would begin. There is simply NOTHING like the K experience: The 13,000 film library; Scenes; Scripts; Ease of use; etc). And while I suspect some K executives might think otherwise, there is simply NO cost justification. NONE. That mostly now applies to the cost-of-entry expense (and on-going hardware Terra Server upgrades), but to questions about things like their rental strategy as well.

During my away time, there were 4 or 5 "negatives" (price being one of them), that kept me away. Some of them have greatly improved (e.g. number of studios they have), but some others have not. BUT, apparently when I want something (even subconsciously), I seem to always come up with a justification. In my specific case, it was two things: (1) the "reduced" cost of entry to the Terra Server approach - the new 12TB model; and (2) the fact that I could have any of K's 13,000 movies in my home ~10 minutes after I decided I wanted it. Those two things basically gave me my personal 4K version of Redbox (but not needing to get in the car to get my movie). AND, given the above and that, in my case, I didn't need instant access to all of my movies, I could quite easily live with the 12TB server - forever.

So now I am an owner (and excited to be one again). But, for the most part, the source of my original objections are still present. Why? I just WANTED it.
Thank you so much @audioguy123 for giving me your perspective and the truth of getting in on the platform. Some vey interesting points in here (I am not going to talk about cost since that is not my point, as like you I also realize for ME the cost is a difficult one to swallow but that is what you need to if you want the experience of the platform).

4K version of Redbox is a very interesting way to look at this. I currently do rent from Redbox but then there are movies that I would love to watch in 4K that they often dont carry and then there is this drive to pick it up at 10PM when you realize you want to watch a movie. I can certainly dig into this way of looking at K. (yes comes at a cost but the cost of convenience )

" apparently when I want something (even subconsciously), I seem to always come up with a justification" - bet all of us can relate to this in this hobby. In fact if I sit back and think about it, the reason I started this thread is I WANT IT and I am trying to find ways to convince my self t irrespective of the cost. I have read about comparison to K as the Ferrari of cars and the experience comes with a price etc. I certainly get that. However it also comes with a cost to "maintain" and enjoy. Often times this is the area were I fail because I convince myself to get onto some thing only to realize the cost to maintain and enjoy that service is high. This is why I am still trying to get answer especially on rentals because I believe rental will play a big role for me if I move into this platform and I know that is not cheap either. So rally taking my time because one I step in I want to enjoy the platform and not complain and take away the experience hat everyone is talking about.

Couple of questions based on your other comments - I have thought about going down the zappiti route but also know that come with a time cost, in your 600 movie ripping experience and the now K experience , do you see difference in quality of one over the other? I dont think there are any reviews or comparison videos that talk about the shiny disk vs k experience. Just looking for your observation even may be based on clients you visited. Would be interesting to get that perspective.

Thank you for taking the time to put your thoughts together for me. Certainly helps especially the new perspective of personal 4k Redbox :)
 

audioguy123

Well-known member
The K audio and video are AT LEAST as good as any shiny disc. And while I have never done a blind comparison, on occasion, the K video looks a bit better.

Forget Zappiti. I tried that as did one of my clients. It actually has HUGE potential to be a step between DIY and Kaleidescape. But, WAY too many issues. The most important is that after you rip a movie, the system too frequently can't find the movie. That's true with their NAS or your own. The only way that Zappiti will get huge traction is to have an error free, problem free, system (it is neither). Cheaper than K? Sure, but not even close to K. I've done DIY, Zappiti and K and price withstanding, there really is no contest. K is not perfect, but it's imperfections don't affect the operation of the system. It just works. That can't be said of anything else. I was just watching one of the Raiders of the Lost Ark movies I had ripped, and 2/3 of the way through it, it just quit and nothing I could do would re-start it. So I had to load the disc, skip to the part I was watching and proceed. That kind of thing has never happened to me on my K system.

How do you put a cost justification on that? You don't. But I like having a system that I can push one button to buy a movies and push one more button to play it, 10 minutes later.
 
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