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DTS and Dolby ATMOS on 4k

JohnA

Active member
⭐️⭐️PATRON⭐️⭐️
Dumb question. When a movie is mastered in 4K how is the sound track format decided. Is it always one or the other, Dolby or DTS? Do they ever do both? I'm always surprised when I see a KScape HDR 4K movie in DTS-HD with the HD (Blu-Ray) version in Dolby Atmos. It seemed with disks, the 4K version was always the version with ATMOS.
 
Not a dumb question at all!

For object-based audio (Dolby Atmos, DTS-X), those assets are provided by the studio already encoded, because this is the nature of those formats — you have to have the encoded TrueHD or DTS-HD MA core with the object-based extensions provided together.

For multichannel audio, we often receive uncompressed PCM source files. We will encode those to DTS-HD MA. I’m not 100% sure why we use DTS-HD MA rather than Dolby TrueHD for these encodes, but since both formats are mathematically lossless, either one will result in your hearing the same bits once they’re decoded.
 
Was part of the question why the store version has a non-object audio mix on the superior video copy? If so, it's usually just that K hasn't muxxed their own yet.
 
Was part of the question why the store version has a non-object audio mix on the superior video copy? If so, it's usually just that K hasn't muxxed their own yet.

Not a dumb question at all!

For object-based audio (Dolby Atmos, DTS-X), those assets are provided by the studio already encoded, because this is the nature of those formats — you have to have the encoded TrueHD or DTS-HD MA core with the object-based extensions provided together.

For multichannel audio, we often receive uncompressed PCM source files. We will encode those to DTS-HD MA. I’m not 100% sure why we use DTS-HD MA rather than Dolby TrueHD for these encodes, but since both formats are mathematically lossless, either one will result in your hearing the same bits once they’re decoded.

Thanks, yes my real quandary was why object based audio was not always with the better video. I often just pick HDR for downloading. My assumption being if an object based codec is available it's on the 4K disk, so if it's not shown with HDR it's not available. I've noticed that's not always the case, sometimes it's just available on the HD version, and you really don't know this unless you select the movie and then select "available audio tracks".
 
I see. This is actually quite a complicated topic that gets into things like the internal business structures of movie studios and also the content processes that Kaleidescape has developed over time with our licensors, and I‘m not able to discuss some of it in detail. Here’s the capsule summary.

Object-based audio is not always offered to electronic retailers, even when it exists on disc. We’ve been working with our licensors for years to broaden the availability of object-based audio, and we’ve had a lot of success in this area. We’re able to get these tracks on many more titles than we could a few years ago.

Due to a quirk in our HD content flow, we do sometimes get object-based audio on HD even when it’s not available for 4K.

If lossless object-based audio is available to us on any format, we include it. If it becomes available, we update movies to add it, and those updates are available at no additional charge to customers who have purchased the movie.
 
Thanks for the info Mike. Much appreciated.
I see. This is actually quite a complicated topic that gets into things like the internal business structures of movie studios and also the content processes that Kaleidescape has developed over time with our licensors, and I‘m not able to discuss some of it in detail. Here’s the capsule summary.

Object-based audio is not always offered to electronic retailers, even when it exists on disc. We’ve been working with our licensors for years to broaden the availability of object-based audio, and we’ve had a lot of success in this area. We’re able to get these tracks on many more titles than we could a few years ago.

Due to a quirk in our HD content flow, we do sometimes get object-based audio on HD even when it’s not available for 4K.

If lossless object-based audio is available to us on any format, we include it. If it becomes available, we update movies to add it, and those updates are available at no additional charge to customers who have purchased the movie.

Thanks for the info Mike. Much appreciated.
 
I see. This is actually quite a complicated topic that gets into things like the internal business structures of movie studios and also the content processes that Kaleidescape has developed over time with our licensors, and I‘m not able to discuss some of it in detail. Here’s the capsule summary.

Object-based audio is not always offered to electronic retailers, even when it exists on disc. We’ve been working with our licensors for years to broaden the availability of object-based audio, and we’ve had a lot of success in this area. We’re able to get these tracks on many more titles than we could a few years ago.

Due to a quirk in our HD content flow, we do sometimes get object-based audio on HD even when it’s not available for 4K.

If lossless object-based audio is available to us on any format, we include it. If it becomes available, we update movies to add it, and those updates are available at no additional charge to customers who have purchased the movie.

I think the above comment ("If lossless object-based audio is available") is important. It is my understanding the K will only provide TrueHD Atmos, not DD+ Atmos like the streaming providers use. So even if K had access to the lossy Atmos data, they would not use it. In that case they would prefer the lossless non-object-based audio.
 
Wondering, @MikeKobb, for a title that has DTS:X on the HD version but DTS HDMA on the UHD/HDR version (Such as Atomic Blonde, below), is the disconnect that the studio doesn't allow you to put the DTS:X asset on the UHD version, or that your content process doesn't allow it? I know you've said that you typically receive immersive audio assets pre-encoded by the studios, but I'm just curious if you're not allowed or not able to attach them to a higher quality video version.

Thanks!
Screenshot 2023-08-02 at 5.13.07 PM.png
 
It's a combination of things. There are potential rights issues, potential tools issues, and also the very real possibility that an audio asset intended for one version may have sync issues with a different version.
 
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