That sounds like a pretty considerable system. The central rack must me quite a site. I think, after doing so much research on the subject, it comes down to who your installer is, with Crestron, AMX or even Savant. You can find horror stories for all of them and stories similar to yours for all as well, with most if not all issues, coming down to the installer. Nice to hear your guy let you buy hardware off ebay. I imagine some are not that open to such deals. I am amazed how much new Crestron shows up on ebay.
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Crestron or Control4
- Thread starter Mrci10
- Start date
Yetis,
My installer doesn't LET me buy hardware off eBay; its not his business where I buy my equipment.
He was highly recommended, I met with him, saw his work, TOLD him I'd supply some of my own equipment and I would buy some from him and others. Once all the HW was in he got to work. The programmer/installer just wants the programming work. I don't think they care how the equipment ended up in front of them. I have bought from Crestron dealers on ebay, direct from Crestron store-front dealers and my programmer. Took me 4 months to find and buy it all, but eventually it was all there. . Mapping out each and every room and function on paper long before any HW purchase made it easy.
I evaluated Control 4 and Savant and though they have promising products, I was more impressed with Crestron AND I had the budget so that made a difference too.
My installer doesn't LET me buy hardware off eBay; its not his business where I buy my equipment.
He was highly recommended, I met with him, saw his work, TOLD him I'd supply some of my own equipment and I would buy some from him and others. Once all the HW was in he got to work. The programmer/installer just wants the programming work. I don't think they care how the equipment ended up in front of them. I have bought from Crestron dealers on ebay, direct from Crestron store-front dealers and my programmer. Took me 4 months to find and buy it all, but eventually it was all there. . Mapping out each and every room and function on paper long before any HW purchase made it easy.I evaluated Control 4 and Savant and though they have promising products, I was more impressed with Crestron AND I had the budget so that made a difference too.
There's no doubt that if you don't mind spending the dough, the Crestron setup will be the best long term solution...*if* you have a quality programmer.
That said, I'd still recommend anyone doing this to require OWNERSHIP of whatever source code the installer uses as your own and require them to LEAVE IT WITH YOU on a server at your home that's backed up.
My big problem with Crestron is my local dealer spent a bunch of money writing their own huge support library of Crestron code for all their installers to use. So they won't give me that, even though they used it on my system. I understand that, and that's the path they chose for themselves, but ultimately it led me to drop Crestron (and that dealer) and do my own thing completely. Because what happens if they get bought our by some other entity that wants to change things completely? Or worse, they go under? I'm screwed and have to get someone to rewrite all my control from scratch. No thanks.
I know Crestron only gives their development environment to certified dealers. I don't like that, but that decision alone didn't put me over the edge. As long as you have the source code any one dealer wrote for you, another could take it over and maintain it (most likely, unless it was really poorly done or something). But if you don't? You're starting over completely, as the Crestron development environment does the equivalent of "compiling" that code and loading it to the controller(s), and that can't be reversed back out.
So buyer beware on *that* tidbit, anyway.
--Donnie
That said, I'd still recommend anyone doing this to require OWNERSHIP of whatever source code the installer uses as your own and require them to LEAVE IT WITH YOU on a server at your home that's backed up.
My big problem with Crestron is my local dealer spent a bunch of money writing their own huge support library of Crestron code for all their installers to use. So they won't give me that, even though they used it on my system. I understand that, and that's the path they chose for themselves, but ultimately it led me to drop Crestron (and that dealer) and do my own thing completely. Because what happens if they get bought our by some other entity that wants to change things completely? Or worse, they go under? I'm screwed and have to get someone to rewrite all my control from scratch. No thanks.
I know Crestron only gives their development environment to certified dealers. I don't like that, but that decision alone didn't put me over the edge. As long as you have the source code any one dealer wrote for you, another could take it over and maintain it (most likely, unless it was really poorly done or something). But if you don't? You're starting over completely, as the Crestron development environment does the equivalent of "compiling" that code and loading it to the controller(s), and that can't be reversed back out.
So buyer beware on *that* tidbit, anyway.
--Donnie
Donnie,
I agree. The one cool thing about my programmer is he knows I am a DIY type but that I have no problem working with him to solve a problem or add new devices or functions. So, as a part of my deal with him, I setup a computer in my home that has all the tools to update my system. He had to install all the tools there and that is the only way he can update my system. He VPN's into my home network and he uses remote desktop to access the system where all the programming is done. Once files are dropped on this system they cannot be deleted. So all that he needs he has to leave on my system. I didn't need all this based upon the relationship I have with him, but I had heard all the horror stories about people being left in the lurch after a programmer didn't give them the source code. So now that I have that setup, as long as I setup the HW correctly, He can do all the programming remotely; which means the price is cheaper and he doesn't have to make trips to my house. This setup also means all the programming tools are on that PC so I get to play with them along with my source code on other processors and I have learned how to program in Simple+ so I actually critique his code before its loaded into my PRO3. Any programmer that has to work with me has to use this environment or they won't be working for me.
I agree. The one cool thing about my programmer is he knows I am a DIY type but that I have no problem working with him to solve a problem or add new devices or functions. So, as a part of my deal with him, I setup a computer in my home that has all the tools to update my system. He had to install all the tools there and that is the only way he can update my system. He VPN's into my home network and he uses remote desktop to access the system where all the programming is done. Once files are dropped on this system they cannot be deleted. So all that he needs he has to leave on my system. I didn't need all this based upon the relationship I have with him, but I had heard all the horror stories about people being left in the lurch after a programmer didn't give them the source code. So now that I have that setup, as long as I setup the HW correctly, He can do all the programming remotely; which means the price is cheaper and he doesn't have to make trips to my house. This setup also means all the programming tools are on that PC so I get to play with them along with my source code on other processors and I have learned how to program in Simple+ so I actually critique his code before its loaded into my PRO3. Any programmer that has to work with me has to use this environment or they won't be working for me.
This is awesome. I mean in your case it's better than awesome, because it sounds like he's a one man show. So while he's treating you well and all that, you'd be f'ed if he got hit by a bus. Except now all you need is to find another programmer (not to sound crass, it just is what it is).
Just know he *may* be breaking his terms of service with Crestron, so I wouldn't advertise who he is or anything in a public forum. But yeah, sounds like you've thought it all through. I applaud your stance on the matter.
I was "on the fence" about needing Creston's level of quality, but would have probably stayed with it if it weren't for the fence Crestron and my dealer created just because I already had it everywhere. But the other thing that bugged me was the per-device cost for using iOS devices as the remotes (it was more than an iPad itself cost just for the software!). So weighing it all, and given how much money I could sell my Crestron stuff for, I jumped ship.
That said, you have a more complex system than any of my systems were. Part of the reason is that I have systems in multiple buildings on the same campus, and distributed video across IP networks doesn't work like your Cat5 solution (since I assume you're just moving HDMI straight over Cat5). So I have more money invested in sources, but way less in switching hardware. And also a lower requirement for fancy control.
So I'm "happy" with iRule/Indigo, but it's not quite the quality level of Crestron, and definitely not as scalable. But I was happy simplifying the systems a tad over what I had and knowing my limitations for control given the cost reduction.
--Donnie
AnOutsider
Well-known member
Control4 can do all of the above as well, but the air media thing sounds cool I'll have to check it out
I agree it comes down to the installer. But if installer/setup/programming costs are about the same per system, the Crestron HW really is expensive.
If I was doing it all over today I think I would not sign up with any of the Crestron, AMX, Savant and just keep it simple.
If I was doing it all over today I think I would not sign up with any of the Crestron, AMX, Savant and just keep it simple.