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Control 4 or Crestron question about remote programming

I think that HDR / SDR is an exception, but to be honest, I'm not sure about that. You'd need to check with Crestron, or a Crestron dealer.

I ended up updating all my displays to be 4K capable displays because: (1) It is primarily cost driven - the cost to upgrade displays was cheaper than getting fancier NVX cards everywhere, and (2) Damn, if I have 4K, I'd like to be able to use it, even if just in the family room or master bedroom. Yes, my "fancy" room is the theater room, but it would still be nice to enjoy 4K elsewhere.

At times I only have content in 4K, depending on licensing (i.e. Disney - I don't like their Premere license agreement, so I never accepted that). And I'm still not thrilled about keeping two copies of movies (one BD/SD, the other 4K - it's cleaner to just have ONE copy of a movie). So Co-Star and just keeping 4K lets the "right thing" happen, regardless of the movie I pick, in my current configuration.

The problem with this approach: Most 4K TVs are large (that's what people buy). When I wanted a smaller TV for the Kitchen, that was tricky. But I did find one that was "small enough", so that solidified the approach I took.

In our case, the kitchen TV is an odd-ball (we'd be unlikely to watch a full length movie there). So the HDR/SDR thing never came up. When streaming, that's not really an issue (and streaming isn't really "HD" or "4K" anyway with the compression mechanisms). But regardless, the cost issue did come up, and it made sense to just get a new TV for the kitchen - the smallest we could find!

Hope this gives you food for thought and is useful, @MikeKobb.
 
43". It was hard to find something much smaller than that unless it was a computer monitor. And a computer monitor would be unlikely to have built-in speakers, which I wanted for the kitchen.
 
NVX uses a compression of 20:1 for Pixel Perfect (I’m pretty sure I’m remembering that correctly) So while the image quality is really exceptional - it’s is still compressed - it has to be. How else do you get 18GBs over a gigabit network?

The classic DM 4K HDR solution uses 2:1 compression. It’s image quality is also outstanding but again - it is still compressed.
How else do you get 18GB down a 10GB pipe?

So on smaller screens or secondary video zones - it’s perfect. For your primary large format theatre room - and this is only my opinion - go direct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Compression isn't "bad". In fact, it can be just fine if no data is lost.

From the "DM NVX™AV-over-IP System Design Guide":

Pixel Perfect Processing technology is incorporated into a DM NVX system to provide flawless video transport in all applications. A video signal is encoded and decoded to achieve imperceptible end-to-end latency of less than 1 frame. The image quality of the source is maintained across a 1-Gigabit network at any resolution up to 4K60 4:4:4.

Lots of compression algorithms are 100% lossless. Common ones: flac (for music), zip or bzip2 or gzip for computer data, etc. These are 100% lossless. Compress, decompress, compare original data to compressed/uncompressed data, and it's 100% bit perfect.

If NVX compresses to achieve distribution over their 1GB pipe, I could care less. NVX guarantees 100% pixel perfect reproduction, and that's all I care about. After all, if you have a Kaleidescape system, it's because you care about picture quality. Otherwise, you'd just stream on a Roku or something.
 
Imperceptible is not the same as identical. There is a reason Crestron doesn’t say identical. Detail on an excel spreadsheet is not at all the same as video fidelity on a large format screen. What is imperceptible to one person is a glaring issue to another. To each his own.

Don’t get me wrong - I love NVX and classic DM and Crestron - there is nothing better for video distribution or control - again just my opinion. I’ve been an Elite Crestron dealer for 14+ years. There is simply nothing better.

And again, simply my opinion - no more no less . For a theatre - get a separate Strato for the theatre zone and don’t run it through distro. The Roku - I’d leave it on distro ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Again, from the Crestron WWW site for NVX:

All-new Pixel Perfect Processing technology makes DM NVX™ the only AV solution that delivers a perfect image every time. Now the finest detail can be revealed in the densest image. Technology so advanced, you won’t be able to tell the difference between DM NVX and direct source.

I guess we can nit-pick over the definition of "Pixel Perfect". In my case, I actually did do an A/B comparison of NVX vs. direct, all else equal (same cable quality, etc). I could trivially see the difference between 1080P and 4K on a large screen, no sweat. I could not see any difference between NVX vs. direct using 4K material.

If you can trivially tell the difference to the point where you can identify an NVX image vs. a direct image, I would be quite impressed. I could not.
 
Jeff, yeah, that's what I found with monitors as well. Fortunately, I don't need speakers on the display in my kitchen (in-ceilings will handle that), so a computer monitor will work fine for me.

graytek, yes, this is my understanding as well. One nice thing about the NVX encoders is that you can loop the HDMI back out again, so given my rack configuration, I should be able to send sources into the theater with a direct HDMI connection into my Radiance Pro, while distributing to the rest of the house via the NVX.
 
My Control 4 system is in. I am pretty impressed for most part and working with instal consultant on few things. By the way he is awesome. Only big complaint at this time is with Roon. I have a Nucleus and still the integration looks bad compared to their actual app. Hope this gets better. Rest I am impressed and still trying to provide feedback to my installer.
 
yes, this is my understanding as well. One nice thing about the NVX encoders is that you can loop the HDMI back out again, so given my rack configuration, I should be able to send sources into the theater with a direct HDMI connection into my Radiance Pro, while distributing to the rest of the house via the NVX.

Note that only the fancier, more expensive NVX cards (like the DM-NVX-350 and up) allow HDMI output. Now you'd likely use these anyways with Kaleidescape due to Co-Star (allow both Strato and M-500 players to go into the DM-NVX-350 card, let the Kaleidescape module on Crestron pick the right player based on the movie selection). But if you wanted to use less expensive E-30 cards, then HDMI outputs for local loopback isn't an option.
 
Yes, Co-Star is technically the software feature that enables a Strato system and a Premiere system to cooperate and present a unified library. It was originally implemented using the Co-Star Switch, and then subsequently expanded with a couple of other alternatives for performing the switching between the two players. NVX is one of those. The Lumagen Radiance Pro is another.

Is this functionality available with Control4? I currently only have a single Strato, but I've been contemplating adding something to my HT do deal with my collection of (non-4k) BluRay disks.
 
Is this functionality available with Control4? I currently only have a single Strato, but I've been contemplating adding something to my HT do deal with my collection of (non-4k) BluRay disks.
I use co star with my Control 4 setup. I was told no advantage removing that of the chain. I am new C4, so not sure if anyone else found a way.
 
That's my understanding as well, but I wasn't aware they had made it possible to eliminate the hardware switch via NVX and Lumagen. I was hoping @MikeKobb could chime in with info on any other options. I'm especially interested in Control4, either using a Control4 Leaf matrix, or via two K boxes connected to the same AV processor.
 
That's my understanding as well, but I wasn't aware they had made it possible to eliminate the hardware switch via NVX and Lumagen. I was hoping @MikeKobb could chime in with info on any other options. I'm especially interested in Control4, either using a Control4 Leaf matrix, or via two K boxes connected to the same AV processor.

I was going to play around with this over the weekend, as I have a Strato and Alto in my system and have a Crestron setup. From the module, I believe the NVX is ultimately just being triggered by digital signals that tell your system what stream to be sending to your display. In theory, I believe I should be able to program the triggers to select the Alto as an example when required and send that signal to my display. If that is the case, it would be as you said, through a normal distributed hdmi matrix and/or receiver inputs.

Will follow up, but would love if @MikeKobb saved me some programming time as from what I can see this can be done through trigger in the crestron module as an example.
 
Was a lot simpler to test than expected. Ultimately with a Crestron system, the Strato will show a unified library and as I go to play from the Strato, the digital output on the module goes high to play from the Premiere product (which is my alto), and I can run a simple stepper (macro) to switch to the Alto input.

The minute though that I do the pairing, my menu and control of the alto separately is shut off.
 
Was a lot simpler to test than expected. Ultimately with a Crestron system, the Strato will show a unified library and as I go to play from the Strato, the digital output on the module goes high to play from the Premiere product (which is my alto), and I can run a simple stepper (macro) to switch to the Alto input.

The minute though that I do the pairing, my menu and control of the alto separately is shut off.

Yeah, all menu controlling is done by the Strato in a Co-Star environment. Menu is no longer displayed by M-500/Alto player.

Note, also, that you don't need your own stepper. The Kaleidescape module can output an analog signal that can be routed directly to the NVX card to tell it which input to switch to. Super simple.
 
Yeah, all menu controlling is done by the Strato in a Co-Star environment. Menu is no longer displayed by M-500/Alto player.

Note, also, that you don't need your own stepper. The Kaleidescape module can output an analog signal that can be routed directly to the NVX card to tell it which input to switch to. Super simple.

Jeff - thanks for the response. In my setup I don't have NVX, and am purely trying to do the switching via my receiver. Because of this I need a stepper although I am sure I can just do this via the analog signal to digital symnbol to switch inputs on my receiver. I also will check again whether my receiver actually has an analog input signal as that could skip the stepper.
 
Jeff - thanks for the response. In my setup I don't have NVX, and am purely trying to do the switching via my receiver. Because of this I need a stepper although I am sure I can just do this via the analog signal to digital symnbol to switch inputs on my receiver. I also will check again whether my receiver actually has an analog input signal as that could skip the stepper.

Ah, got it. Since we were discussing NVX in depth, I just assumed that's what you're using. If not, the Kaleidescape module (as you found) gives you the tools you need to control hardware on your own. If you have the Kaleidescape players going into different inputs of a receiver, say, than yeah, you'd just use the outputs of the Kaleidescape module to do what you needed.

Sorry for the confusion!
 
Me no parle Crestron. Me speak Control4. :)

I can program a Strato and an Alto into a Control4 system as unique devices, and I'm pretty sure I can even change what input is shown based on which unit is actually playing rather than what unit I tell Control4 to play. But I wasn't aware there was an ability to merge the GUIs without the physical co-star. Can I?
 
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