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CEDIA 2019

You make some assumptions about K's willingness to properly fund the Store, so please share with me an instance where a studio said "give us more money and we'll give you the HD codecs faster" (studio and contact name please so I can follow up).

I'd also like the names of those at either Kaleidescape, or legally representing K, that "promised" you the advanced codecs you mentioned. Likewise with the major studio launching at the end of August (not saying that's not coming, but I realize we are now 6 days past the end of August so I can see why you think you were misled). If you have that info, please send me a PM so I can follow up.

I'm not aware of any company that sells a product by describing it as "we think it's pretty good," or "it may not be the best, but we try." K's pride in what they produce is a good thing, so I would expect positive marketing comments.

I've got no problem with negative opinions about K's products or services, but implying they intentionally mislead buyers is unfair because that's not how they operate, never have and never will.

If you're that disappointed with the platform, go back to DIY, or maybe Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, or Apple can better serve your needs. In that regard, reach out if you're looking to sell your K gear, I can help.


Jim

Well said Jim. I am also curious to know who makes such promises, Thrang should definitely let you know. Personally, no-one from K(even during the difficult years) ever gave me any kind of promises.

I still carefully select and buy from other retailers movies from those two studios with lossless audio that I want to enjoy in my system(latest being Alita). I would definitely love K to offer me the full package and get my hard earned $, if it was the case I would have definitely bought even more movies. Will this make me sell my system? Still not enough to beat the rest of their offering(i.e. 232 movies in 4K not available on disc!!!!), ease of use and great customer service.

I appreciate what K offers and fully enjoy it together with my family and friends despite its few limitations. For the record 95% of those watching can't hear a difference between Atmos and DTS 5.1 up-mixed audio(using Altitude's up-mixer).

I only want K to communicate more and maybe give some explanations on why some things are happening or why some strategic decisions are made, that's my only ask. Everything else will eventually come(but better sooner than later:D:D).

Going to now watch Rocketman which btw is still not available on disc!

Kostas
 
Thanks Jim - as I noted here and in more detail on AVS, I like many things about the K system and want the company and platform to succeed.

So if the purchasing decision was a three legged stool, the quality of content and the user experience still are immensely enjoyable and the solution is unparalleled. The third leg, as noted but will not rehash, is what went wobbly and short for me.

Nonetheless, I am deferring selling the system for now and will look for more progress from now through the end of the year on some of these top level topics (ATMOS/DTS:X from 20th Century and NBCU; MA; and additional studios. I do remain hopeful there will be more solid news forthcoming, as that can only help the platform, the company, and its customers.

And if anyone is listening, can we at least get Alita with the proper soundtrack. Not only is it missing Atmos, it is only TrueHD 5.1 for the 4k version, while the HD version is 7.1. That's particularly mystifying...

(As a personal aside - I disagree though that upmixing sounds as good as native for Atmos - I guess I'm in the 5%!)
 
Thank you for a measured and constructive set of comments!

I think I can shed a little light on the disparity on the Alita soundtrack (from observations over time - not from any special knowledge). I believe Kaleidescape has studio agreements and workflows in place for HD releases to get files that are bit-for-bit with the disc release. In this case, for example, the Alita HD disc also has 7.1 sound.

I do feel your pain on the 4K release. To be limited to 5.1 is certainly far from optimal. Fingers crossed we hear some progress at CEDIA - it has been a while since there has been a major announcement.
 
Quite possible

What is mystifying is why there would be non bit-for-bit workflows for UHD from the same studios

It provides no benefit for the Studio, the vendor (K), or the customer

Who wins?
 
I'm thinking through my position as well.

I was really looking towards CEDIA for some news, but realistically CEDIA is a show for K and others to promote their products to custom installers. It's an insider event, not a public showcase. So press releases of new features are welcome, but should not be assumed.

I'm also wondering if we are barking up the wrong tree with regards to MA. Meaning, the issue is with MA and not K and that we (as interested owners) need to appeal to MA on K's behalf and not the other way around. I have done this multiple times, but a more concerted force of us would be more helpful. I'll start a new thread about this with direct links and actions for us to pursue shortly.

I did go ahead and make a store purchase as well. Secret Life of Pets 2 for family movie night. Two clicks, movie ready 30 minutes later, no trip to Red Box (which doesn't have it locally anyway), no trip to BB to buy the disc and rip the disc to my server. Unfortunately, it's a NBCU movie so missing Atmos for now, but it's still lossless with disc-quality video and no effort.
 
Quite possible

What is mystifying is why there would be non bit-for-bit workflows for UHD from the same studios

It provides no benefit for the Studio, the vendor (K), or the customer

Who wins?
If there are no licensing related issue for 4k (one can never underestimate the Hollywood suits when it comes to paranoia & greed), it may be related to workflow.

Each studio has different workflows for delivering different format content. Remember for K, it is not the disc workflow, but rather digital workflow. Unfortunately digital workflow for everyone other than K is streaming. So the studios probably need a different workflow for K for lossless immersive audio. I have no idea why they can’t just give the disc workflow to K.

Based what we have heard so far, K gets the master files, which they run through their workflow to get the movie into K format.

Maybe the studios will need to make changes on their end to get this done. Maybe they need more money from K, maybe it’s something that we are not privy to.

Fox could have held off on changes due to Disney buyout. Hopefully Fox will soon have immersive audio as Disney already does. My guess is NBCU will also soon have immersive audio.

Hopefully we will get the immersive audio for all studios, MA and new studios like MGM, HBO etc onboard soon.
 
If there are no licensing related issue for 4k (one can never underestimate the Hollywood suits when it comes to paranoia & greed), it may be related to workflow.

Each studio has different workflows for delivering different format content. Remember for K, it is not the disc workflow, but rather digital workflow. Unfortunately digital workflow for everyone other than K is streaming. So the studios probably need a different workflow for K for lossless immersive audio. I have no idea why they can’t just give the disc workflow to K.

Based what we have heard so far, K gets the master files, which they run through their workflow to get the movie into K format.

Maybe the studios will need to make changes on their end to get this done. Maybe they need more money from K, maybe it’s something that we are not privy to.

Fox could have held off on changes due to Disney buyout. Hopefully Fox will soon have immersive audio as Disney already does. My guess is NBCU will also soon have immersive audio.

Hopefully we will get the immersive audio for all studios, MA and new studios like MGM, HBO etc onboard soon.

I see both sides the workflow consideration - couldn't one argue they already do have a distinct workflow for K? Or more specifically, would the video workflow be separate from the audio workflow?

I'm also trying to see if what K gets from NBCU/20th Century even matches any streaming workflows?...

Using Alita Battle Angel as an example, are there streaming services that match the 4k/TrueHD 5.1 offering that K has been provided for that title? iTunes and Vudu are (lossy) Atmos for their UHD versions - Amazon Prime appears to be limited to HD. Fandango Now has a 4k version, but I can't see what audio it offers. Netflix doesn't seem to have Alita.

Atomis Blonde is another example - K HD offers the most advanced codec, DTS:X, but the UHD version is DTSHD-MA 5.1. Nonetheless, the Blu Ray HD disc is DTSHD-MA 7.1. I dont see a streaming equivalent of the K 4k/5.1 combination, though certainly possible I'm missing it somewhere...

Thanks
 
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Well we should know shortly if Kaleidescape has anything to share at Cedia. Any rumors about new hardware?
 
No new hardware.


Jim
 
Looking forward to the day I can uncross my fingers regarding Movies Anywhere, especially Disney “owned” properties. This is a big deal with me with K as 4K is my direction and with lack of 4K “and” physical media on recent platforms MA is critically important on my side. Want to hedge my bets as much as possible.

Even 4K, Movies Anywhere are going to go away eventually as will likely ownership at all in future.

I can really see a flat monthly fee to access anything you want as much as you want down the road at some point which is what I’ve been asking for over and over for the last decade. TV shows I don’t really care too much about and I really don’t currently or want to take much for it. But I’ll give a good sized flat fee each much for a nearly complete film collection; including current, recent, or fairly recent titles.

Hardware continues to grow and improve, but software (programs, material, software, firmware) seems to much more evolving in recent years.
 
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