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Black levels (The Batman)

J

jmdls

Well-known member
Authorized Kaleidescape Dealer
I've watched several films lately -- recent big releases -- and I've been disappointed with the black levels. I'm watching on a Sony OLED A80J and it's apparent right from the opening title scenes that black levels are more like dark grey (I'd subjectively say around 15 IRE) instead of the true (0 IRE) black of the letterbox bars.

I have my TV set to "Custom" which is supposed to be the most accurate mode and for other content -- non-Kaleidescape, including HDR streaming -- it looks great with nice true black levels. When starting The Batman, when the title screen came up (and also a hallway scene around 2:02 into the film that cuts to pitch black) I paused the movie and dropped the black level setting from 50 down to 43, matching the "black" of the screen image area to the black of the letterbox bars. Definitely made images look far richer. But when I got out of the movie back to the Kaleidescape cover art screen, it was clearly too dark as were other sources. Watching Bond No Time to Die black levels seemed more accurately "black" at around the 47 setting.

I've downloaded all of the available test patterns from the Store, and I'm wondering what you guys use to set Black levels, or if you've noticed a disparity between Kaleidescape HDR "blacks" and other sources, or if maybe my Sony is just seeing something from the Kaleidescape that elevates the levels...? I don't have a Lumagen, and video is currently running through an Altitude 16 which isn't supposed to touch the picture.

Just curious if anyone else has noticed this and what patterns you use for setting black levels... And I'm thinking the TV *should* have different settings for HDR/SDR but maybe it doesn't and I'm seeing some error between these...

Thanks!
 
This is something I’ve noticed on my LG c9 as well. I notice in several movies any “black” background is not actually black - it’s gray where the black bars are truly black. Interestingly, it’s not on all material. For example - in the Trinnov demo, the black is completely black. I have not compared movies where I notice this in K to their disc counterpart, but with your post I may do so now. I had assumed that film based source material maybe didn’t display true black? But maybe this is a K problem?
 
Here’s The Greatest Showman on K0D30C5D0-058E-4994-BAB6-E3CFEB34BBA7.jpeg
Here’s The Greatest Showman on 4k BluRay
370CCFF9-6804-4FBA-B56B-F9118B3ED3D8.jpeg
Here’s The Trinnov experience on K
D0C02157-C642-42EC-BF37-DCDB4A64910E.jpeg
And another
79D12AC0-7BAB-42F9-85D5-9FE846610831.jpeg
 
Curious. Are you watching the HDR movies in 60Hz or 24Hz frames? After the last firmware update, I have noticed with PictureCheck that HDR minimum black increased for 60hz and stayed the same for 24hz. I have a support ticket in with Kscape. Happened on two different players and video devices. LG Oled and Sony Projector.

Try changing 60/24 and check black levels with PictureCheck.
 
sbutter said:
Curious. Are you watching the HDR movies in 60Hz or 24Hz frames? After the last firmware update, I have noticed with PictureCheck that HDR minimum black increased for 60hz and stayed the same for 24hz. I have a support ticket in with Kscape. Happened on two different players and video devices. LG Oled and Sony Projector.

Try changing 60/24 and check black levels with PictureCheck.
Click to expand...
I saw you posted on FB, too, and Tom indicated it’s a bug they’re currently rolling the fix out for. I followed his advice in that response to “allow video mode changes” and it fixed the problem. This is how it looks, now on K, with that setting change.18BF70AA-76BD-4DC6-AD99-036E9D6A5285.jpeg
 
I watched Batman on both my LG C1 65" in HDR and JVC RS3000 UHD and was disappointed in both when it comes to black levels. I am thinking that is how they shot the movie and it's intended look?
 
Thanks for the pics @rehr0001! Pretty sure that I’m experiencing the same Display mode change issues and have changed the settings! Awesome that K support and @TomVaughan monitored the forum and gave the suggestion!!!
 
FYI, this was @TomVaughan post to me on FB:
“We did find a bug that raises black levels. It's getting fixed by a patch that is starting to roll out now. You can avoid the bug if you set your player to "Allow Display Mode Changes" through the browser interface... http://my-kaleidescape.local/components... player settings”
 
I have not seen the new "The Batman," but I have seen a lot of comments (many of them not positive) about how visually dark and difficult to see the movie is.
 
jmdls said:
FYI, this was @TomVaughan post to me on FB:
“We did find a bug that raises black levels. It's getting fixed by a patch that is starting to roll out now. You can avoid the bug if you set your player to "Allow Display Mode Changes" through the browser interface... http://my-kaleidescape.local/components... player settings”
Click to expand...
If you want quicker sync times, you can leave “Minimize Display Mode Changes” and change “OSD Refresh Rate” to 24 hz. This will show GUI and movies in 24 hz.
 
sbutter said:
If you want quicker sync times, you can leave “Minimize Display Mode Changes” and change “OSD Refresh Rate” to 24 hz. This will show GUI and movies in 24 hz.
Click to expand...
Yes, but it is the "Minimize Display Mode Changes" instead of "ALLOW..." that seems to be the source of the black level bug...
 
jmdls said:
Yes, but it is the "Minimize Display Mode Changes" instead of "ALLOW..." that seems to be the source of the black level bug...
Click to expand...
This how I’m getting around the bug with OSD at 24hz and Minimize changes. The bug is related to HDR at 60hz. Multiple setting combos that can show a movie at 24hz.
 
jmdls said:
Yes, but it is the "Minimize Display Mode Changes" instead of "ALLOW..." that seems to be the source of the black level bug...
Click to expand...
The bug was specific to HDR playback at 60Hz. It also resulted in crushed whites. As has been mentioned by others, the fix for this issue started rolling out this week. Once your system has kOS 10.12.1-23099 on it, you have the fix and can switch back to "Minimize Display Mode Changes" and set your OSD back to 60 Hz if you so desire.
 
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