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4K Projector suggestions

JerryL

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Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on 4K projectors. I am sure there is a wealth of knowledge around the internet but before I jump into all of it, I think we are a fairly knowledgable group of people and I have stepped away from the hobby for a few years so I am wondering whats everyone thinks.

Some info:
Currently running a Runco I think its their SC-50D (bought in very early 2007) with a 2.35 lens on an automated sled. Throw distance is approx 30' and my screen is a 2.35:1 Stewart with auto side masking. I think its 12' wide. Im using a Lumagen Radiance XE processor because the Runco from that era was pretty crummy! The projector can throw out a very bright image with what looks to my eyes as very good dynamic range and good (but not very good) blacks.

Projector is in its own HVAC controlled room with special optical glass.

I don't really care about 3D.

I have a feeling I am looking at a fairly large expenditure if I want to go 4K but like I said before, just wondering what you all think. One day I will do it, its really a question of when.
 

Mr.Poindexter

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Jerry, I am in a similar boat with you. I am still using my Digital Projection Mercury 5000HD so I am not even getting 1080p (but have a 3 chip DLP). The image is bright and color great but not so good on the blacks.

I would like to upgrade to 4K but I think it is in my best interest to wait and get the HDR ability with it and expect there to be another big roll-out of tech beyond the initial 4K push that is happening now, both in projection and direct view sets.
 

todo

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I just went through a ATMOS Upgrade - 30 channel system - watch out for cover of Electronic House Magazine in February Issue...
Visited CEDIA Dallas and auditioned the Sony 5000 ES Laser 4K projector MSRP is 60K - I believe this projector with HDR, P3 and Simulated Rec 2020 and 5000 Lumens with Infinity to 1 (with DI) contrast ratio will be the projector to get. I got to touch feel and hear the projector and it is right sized with very low fan noise... pricey but will last a long long time... the projector will be available 2nd quarter 2016 - I would wait for a few reviews and make a decision.
 

JerryL

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WHOA! That sounds like some crazy system! Congratulations! How do you like it? I will be sure to check out Electronic House. Will it be on line?

I will be sure to keep my eyes out for that Sony.

I agree with Mr. Poindexter that HDR should be a huge deal. I think for most people with normal sized displays it will be more important than the extra resolution. For those of us with larger displays the extra pixel density will be nice.

I appreciate the advice which is to wait and see. :)
 

todo

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The ATMOS is a whole different league - 30 channels 14000 Watt of amplification and great calibrators used QSC Eq systems to finish up - the immersion is of the charts although I had a big constraint on using ceiling speakers (my ceiling is too pretty to mess with ) and I have used up firing speakers.
Thanks - and the Sony 5000 ES is HDR P3 and even Rec 2020 (simulated) - my screen is 12 foot wide Cinecurve Perforated - I like to watch at 20 Ftl which I can do with my Sim Lumis today changing bulbs often but what I am most excited about is that with my small screen (12 foot wide) and 5000 lumen projector I will be able to get to 16 foot lambert in 3D and that with ATMOS that will be a awesome combo.
I love the SXRD technology because unlike DLP the picture is film like and Sony has great after sales service - I am reading that the contrast ratio of Sony SXRD deteriorates over time but they are trying to fix this issue for this flag ship projector.
Happy Holidays Y'all..
 

JerryL

Well-known member
Thank you and my goodness I can only imagine how amazing that setup is.

I think you just introduced me to my likely projector replacement. I might wait until late next year to do it but wow. My goodness. I've been reading mini reviews and impressions and it simply seems like they've really blown the doors off the projector market. I figured this kind of projector would be around $90-100k. These are all phone book numbers for most people but the point is at $60k it seems Sony is trying to deliver a bit of a relative value.

I don't know the brightness value I like to watch at but my rule of thumb for projectors is "big and bright"- of course not too bright! This thing looks like its got it all and then some. Like Sony is really out to make a statement- and what a statement indeed!

As an aside, I love photography and the Sony cameras over the past 5 years have been absolutely stellar. I'm a long time Nikon shooter- and for some things I still prefer my D4 but I've been messing with all different size and configuration Sony cameras and they are consistently impressing me. The latest one I have is the A7Rii and its really amazing what they are doing.
 

cinelife

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I'll second that new Sony 4K 5000 (I'm a dealer so I've ordered one already), but as todo mentioned, you might want to wait for actual reviews. This is a modded version of their GTZ-270 released recently (there's a 280 as well, but designed for other applications).

On the lower end Sony has the other 4K models, of which the 1100ES is at the top, for now. That said, there are reports from some, not all, Sony 1000Es and 1100ES, and a less expensive model as well, that Contrast is somehow adjusting down over time. The thought is there might be some design defect that doesn't show up until the unit builds hours, and according to some reports Sony is looking into this issue. No one can say for sure the new 5000 will develop the same issue, but if it's panel related then that's a concern. We'll see (and Yes, I still have mine on order).

DPI should also be considered, if the budget allows. Their Insight 4K Laser ($120K), and 4K LED ($150K) have received very good reviews, but I don't know that I trust the 3000 lumen spec for the LED (even with the HK affect). I currently use their Titan Ref 660 3D and get a calibrated 3750 lumens in 2D and 2100 in 3D, but obviously not 4K.

I'd suggest JVC as well, even with their version of 4K, but unfortunately not enough light to power most of the screen sizes mentioned by members (assuming you like a bright image).


Jim
 

RAV

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New to the forum - really intrigued by Kaleidescape!

For anyone looking for a much less expensive but still very capable "close to 4K" (e-Shift4) projector the JVC DLA-RS500 is said to be an amazing projector for the price (MSRP $7,000). The custom install version is DLA-X750.

JVC seems to have managed to do something pretty amazing this year - maintain their best-in-class native contrast and deep blacks but raise the lumens to 1,800 (and early reports are that it calibrates to close that luminosity). It also has full support for HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 (at 18Gbps). Although its compatible with HDR it's not clear how effective it can be at 1,800 lumens. On the other head - it supports the DCI P3 color space very well. It also supports 4K60p 4:4:4.

Bottom line - many consider it to be a worthy competitor to the older Sony 4K line (including the 1100ES) for overall picture quality (even though the 1100ES probably has a slightly sharper picture being true 4K).

I have one on the way. In fact - looking at projectors is how I learned about Kaleidescape!
 

cinelife

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Very nice, I have been hearing field comments that these new JVC's are providing more light, always a good thing to reach the larger screen market.

Have fun with that PJ, and report your experiences if you have time.


Jim
 

JerryL

Well-known member
Thanks guys for the info. While the budget could allow the DP stuff, the Sony seems like its got the kitchen sink for ½ the money. I will have to watch this space. The one thing Im not so sure I will love with the Sony is I have to date (consider I have not really looked in 5-6 years!!) not liked DILA projectors. They always looked washed out and lacked the punch and what I would term realism that I see with DLP. I know JVC is doing some amazing things at much more sane price points. But if I am going 4K I will likely look for a true native 4K setup.
 

cinelife

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You will still find a difference in the look of DLP and LCOS based units. I doubt that will ever change given the way the two technologies work. That said, there are other image improvements (HDR being one), that have improved the overall image quality of these PJ's.

Always best to see one for yourself if possible, and if not "in-home," than as close as possible to replicating your room conditions.



Jim
 

JerryL

Well-known member
Thanks Jim and you can bet I will be sure to do that over the next year or so. I am sure Sony will have a demo setup at their store in Manhattan so I can go see it at some point. Its exciting to follow along with the latest developments. Maybe the technology has improved to the point that I now like it. You never know.
 

RAV

Well-known member
Very nice, I have been hearing field comments that these new JVC's are providing more light, always a good thing to reach the larger screen market.

Have fun with that PJ, and report your experiences if you have time.

Jim
So I have spent a few weeks with the JVC DLA-RS600 projector...and I am really impressed. Some of the highlights:

- Looks great on a 156" diagonal 2.40 screen using zoom method to fill the screen (2D is plenty bright even in low lamp).
- Upscaled Blu-ray on reference-type movies looks amazing.
- 3D is excellent.
- The outstanding contrast and inky blacks are especially great when watching movies.
- Great value (bang for the buck).

I think this projector (or the DLA-RS500) is potentially a good fit for anyone that really could use a projector upgrade and would like to fill the gap until true 4K projectors supporting 18 Gbps, 4K60p, 4:4:4, DCI P3, HDR, etc. are available and economical.
 

cinelife

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That's great RAV, thanks for reporting back on your experience. Others looking for a reasonable alternative to some of the other 4K PJ offerings should obviously consider this PJ.

Congrats.


Jim
 

JerryL

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Sure sounds like a winner! Thanks for sharing your experience. I will put that on my list to check out.
 

djb_rh

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Dang. 1900 lumens. I've got a Digital Projection 2900 lumen model in a big room with a lot of windows. Even with most windows closed off with black-out blinds, this projector is barely bright enough if there's any daylight left. Screen is about 13'. At 1920x1080, the pixelation is pretty bad with skin tones and such.

4k with a decent upscaler is probably the only answer (or 4k with 4k content, obviously), but I'm pretty sure I need to get closer to 3k lumens than 2k. But I don't wanna spend five figures either. It's not my *theater*, so until there's something under $10k, I'll live with it.


--Donnie
 

Mr.Poindexter

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I hear you Donnie. I am running a 4500 lumen projector and I don't want to drop down to below 2k lumens.

I wonder how much light is lost when it is properly calibrated.
 

RAV

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What I have been hearing is that the DLA-RS600 calibrates to 1,700+ lumens - unusually high for a projector rated at 1,900 ANSI lumens.

I think this projector is best for a light-controlled room. That is where its native contrast ration of 150,000 to 1 will have the strongest impact.
 

cinelife

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The room really dictates so much about the final image. I've got a 5000 lumen (cal'd to 3600 in 2D) DPI Titan Ref that is plasma like on the theatre screen, but that room is a bat cave (close the door, no lights, cannot see your hand in front of your face, even after several minutes of eye adjustment). The screen is only 12' wide. I've also projected a Sony 4K 1100ES in that room and the image looked really, really good on that screen. If I move them to my media room, far less light control, the DPI still works, but not plasma like and the Sony barely gets it done. It does work, but as expected at a significant loss of CR.

RAV found what works for him in his space.



Jim

Jim
 

HiFiGuy1

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I missed my chance to see the Sony VPL-VW5000 at CEDIA, but I did see the DPI Insight 4K Laser, and that thing was AMAZING. I know the Sony will be great, too. I sure don't need the 12k lumens from the DPI on my (apparently tiny) 10 foot wide Scope screen, but the PQ was just extraordinary.

In my own price range, I am looking forward to seeing the real-world performance of the new TI "FauxK" DLP, with "wobbling", or XPR, as I think they call it this time around. If it does well from a detail standpoint, I might get a single-chip model driven by an LED or maybe laser engine, assuming such an animal will exist in the near future.

Side note, I am guessing that Lumagen will have a scaler for the native 4096x2160 res of these two beasts, as opposed to the native 3840x2160 of most UHD displays? Most of my projects don't dictate a scaler these days, so I am not up to date with them.
 
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