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Just imagine…

M

mbmapit

Well-known member
I wonder if a discussion has ever been had within the offices about releasing a value proposition player.

With just a player people could rent and stream from the store or (if full streaming is not an option) it could just have a 128/256gb nvme drive to hold just the 1 movie at a time then delete after viewing is finished. It could be the size of an ATV or nvidia shield.

People would pay for the ease of use and interface alone. I wonder how much money it would make them. Plus if they kept it up to date/relevant i.e Dolby vision the likes of AVSFORUMS and AVFORUMS users would likely be all over it as a product.

Alternatively, license your front end to someone like nvidia or Zidoo for another revenue stream?

I always worry that there will come a day when they hit troubled times again but next time they may not rise from the ashes so surely more revenue and more avenues would secure the business more?

Just thinking out loud really. 🤔
 
Okay, but this scenario highlights a question that has loomed ever since the shift away from discs: how do they not come off looking like a $2,000 Roku/Shield? Only charging $1,999 and "let the dealers worry about that" don't count.
 
I did say value, I’m willing to bet that they’d sell well for 500, they’d likely make a profit on the hardware at that price and the rest is pure profit from movie rentals.
 
mbmapit said:
I did say value, I’m willing to bet that they’d sell well for 500, they’d likely make a profit on the hardware at that price and the rest is pure profit from movie rentals.
Click to expand...
You´re suggesting to sell basically a Strato C that is just limited to rental movies, but for a tenth of the regular price of a Strato?...
 
In a nutshell that does almost seem to describe it but I wouldn’t expect the same build quality obviously.
 
Well, two options:
1) Reuse the existing player: no development effort required but how to justify that it only costs a tenth of the "real one"?
2) Development a simpler player: that would require a lot of development effort, logistics, support, etc. which wouldn´t allow for a $500,- player

In short: it´s not going to happen.
I often read the idea from interested people looking for a cheaper "entrance fee" into the highend stuff: let it be madVR selling their Envy algorithms as a software package for a PC or Trinnov, licensing their Optimizer to other platforms, etc.
The argument most of the time is: "they could reach a lot larger target audience". The thing is: they don´t want to. You need to have a completely different company setup wether you´re targeting a small highend niche clientele or a larger more mass market user group.
 
DieZwei said:
The argument most of the time is: "they could reach a lot larger target audience". The thing is: they don´t want to.
Click to expand...
There in lays the issue, they DO want to. Yet instead of trying to appeal to the wider market they continue to only appeal to a tiny niche segment.

I love Kaleidescape and everything they do, I just hope they don’t fall on troublesome times again and to do that I feel they need a larger user base and therefore more revenue.

If there push in to cinema pays off then that’s great news but will it be enough?
 
"If" what is being described in this thread is released at some point, it will likely have a very limited amount of storage, probably a SSD, and still cost thousands, not hundreds.

Jim
 
cinelife said:
"If" what is being described in this thread is released at some point, it will likely have a very limited amount of storage, probably a SSD, and still cost thousands, not hundreds.

Jim
Click to expand...
I truly hope that you’re wrong. With physical media declining Kaleidescape are in a vantage point compared to all other companies so they could easily tie up the majority of the market for those who want quality over quantity.
 
mbmapit said:
Unless something has drastically changed from when I was working with them then I highly doubt it.
Click to expand...
I think we are talking about different things.
Of course it makes sense for K to increase their user base within their target audience. No doubt.
But you´re suggesting to increase the user base by moving into a lower end "mass market". That´s not K´s business and i don´t think it would be wise for them to move there.
 
I don't think the K Store is ready for the kind of scrutiny that comes with a mass market device. K owners are a small niche, and there's still a 52 page thread about "holes" in the store.

Just this week, which is a slow week for home video releases, there were:
3 4K UHD Releases (K got 0)
23 Blu-ray Releases (K has 3)
23 Digital Releases (K got 3)

To a mainstream audience, a K budget player could look like a streaming box that can't stream and doesn't have all the movies. A UHD Player/Apple TV combo would be cheaper and offer more.

To me, if K plowed all of their resources into more and higher quality content on the K Store, not only would this drive movie ($) and Terra ($$$$) sales, but it would better prep the store if they one day did decide to pursue a wider market. To me, it's all content. More + Better = Bigger $
 
iTunes is kind of the gold standard as far as digital content availability goes and even they have several notable holes. As long as all of these boutique physical media labels continue to have exclusive rights for their catalog releases Kaleidescape and other digital retailers will continue to have these holes. We are a LONG way away from the day where we have the entire criterion collection available on the Kaleidescape store.

As it stands right now, I think the store is already past the critical mass point as far as its impact on system sales is concerned.

As much as I would love a cheaper entry point for the platform, I just can’t see it happening.

Suppose they were to resurrect the old Strato S with 8TB of storage and sell it for around $5k? Now suppose that the average person buying one of these buys around 1000 movies from the store. Kaleidescape would have to make at least $4 on every movie sold just to break even with the current price of entry for the platform. I just don’t see them selling that many more systems at $5k to make up the difference. Even if you price it in the sub $1k range, there are only so many home theater enthusiasts that would buy one; not near enough to make up the lost revenue from the current price of entry.
 
Margins are small on the content. I doubt they make more than a couple of $$$ per title. The sales they have are vendor supported. They probably get some kick backs too but nothing major. Unless they sell iTunes-like volumes, they should continue to up-charge hardware in order to stay in business.

I don’t agree there is a much greater market in the $500 mark. Oppo made amazing disc players in the $400-$600 region and I remember endless complaints why it cost 3 times more than an ordinary Sony or LG disc player. Heck, people even complain about ATV costing $129 whereas Roku and Amazon ones are $50. Mass market is in the sub $100 mark. The $500 mark commonly brought up is the enthusiast market which is not all that big. It is pretty much however many people you see regularly posting on AVS. What is that? A thousand people tops? Let’s make it ten thousand. It is still nowhere near how many units K scape need to sell at $500 to break even.

I don’t think K even wants to sell compact Terras at $10k. I believe that’s their way of getting people into the eco system because they know they will have to eventually add more storage. The day I see K offering a value product or allow “not downloaded” libraries to be shown on the GUI is the day I start worrying the ship is sinking.
 
It is sad but DVDs still outsell Blu-rays whereas UHD disc sales make up only a fraction. Average consumer is not even interested in the a la cart pay for each movie iTunes model. They want the subscription model like Netflix. I doubt 99.99% of the market cares about lossless audio or high-bitrate downloads unless the cost is the same as the cheapest alternative (also as convenient). K scape is sharing that remainder 0.01% market with physical media and DIY (Plex, Zidoo etc..). It makes absolute sense to maximize profits on each hardware sale in this very limited market.
 
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Substance said:
It is sad but DVDs still outsell Blu-rays whereas UHD disc sales make up only a fraction. Average consumer is not even interested in the a la cart pay for each movie this is very true iTunes model. They want the subscription model like Netflix. I doubt 99.99% of the market cares about lossless audio or high-bitrate downloads unless the cost is the same as the cheapest alternative (also as convenient). K scape is sharing that remainder 0.01% market with physical media and DIY (Plex, Zidoo etc..). It makes absolute sense the maximize profits on each hardware sale in this very limited market.
Click to expand...
This is very true and it has always puzzled me. Audio and video quality have always mattered to us both and consumed large chunks of our disposable income… and more :) It’s not a simple issue of available budget driven choices. I don’t mean this as a criticism, but their choices are driven far more by brand than the actual sound and image. That and convenience/ease. There is no right or wrong here but I realised a long time ago that it was us that was different.

Maybe it’s a curse we share and ambivalance would be a blessing but I enjoy the ‘problem’.
 
Substance said:
It is sad but DVDs still outsell Blu-rays whereas UHD disc sales make up only a fraction. Average consumer is not even interested in the a la cart pay for each movie iTunes model. They want the subscription model like Netflix. I doubt 99.99% of the market cares about lossless audio or high-bitrate downloads unless the cost is the same as the cheapest alternative (also as convenient). K scape is sharing that remainder 0.01% market with physical media and DIY (Plex, Zidoo etc..). It makes absolute sense the maximize profits on each hardware sale in this very limited market.
Click to expand...
Great comments!

I still want a current model 320 Disc Carousel with a universal media player. This would satisfy the holes in the studio collection & allow for boutique discs. Neither Sony nor Kaleidscape are interested in physical media or the challenges of integrating into a "download system."
 
cinelife said:
"If" what is being described in this thread is released at some point, it will likely have a very limited amount of storage, probably a SSD, and still cost thousands, not hundreds.

Jim
Click to expand...
Jim, good point, I am guessing that the hardware must include the cost of the massive data array and back end system to maintain the store and licensing MUST be rolled into the product.
 
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