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Movie Updates

Yeah, that’s great. I never buy HD titles from K because I figure they’ll get updated to 4k at some point and I’m not taking a chance on what it might cost to upgrade or have to fully buy the movie again.
Wise strategy mate - Singin' in the Rain the prime example. HD, $14.99 from store - upgrade price $9.99 to UHD, a whole $1.00 saving on the regualr UHD price :mad:
 
Wise strategy mate - Singin' in the Rain the prime example. HD, $14.99 from store - upgrade price $9.99 to UHD, a whole $1.00 saving on the regualr UHD price :mad:
I agree this is an issue. Especially when the D2D price is only like $4-5. I also think it is absolutely RIDICULOUS that if you have done D2D for a title (say you put your disc in and bought the HD version) that you have to later do the same AGAIN to get the better D2D pricing when that title is eventually in 4K unless you did a completely different step of "catalog Blu-ray". I would think that it would be trivial for a system to realize that you had already done D2D (just auto catalog the title!), so you wouldn't have to go through the process all over again. Realistic upgrade pricing would make this a non-issue, but here we are. It is little stuff like this that still baffles me on such a premium product. There is just so many things that they leave it up to the customer to do that shouldn't be there. If I'm paying a MASSIVE premium for hardware, you would think that they wouldn't leave the customer with so many burdens. I hate to sling it back to iTunes, but they are a perfect example of taking the burden away. Buy an HD movie, it is archived in your account. Movie is updated to 4K HDR? Automatically upgraded for you in your account AT NO COST. While K may not be able to do free updates based on whatever agreement they have with the studios, I would hope they could make this far more cost effective and easier on the end user, especially given the software/hardware prices compared to the competition.
 
Singin' in the Rain the prime example. HD, $14.99 from store - upgrade price $9.99 to UHD, a whole $1.00 saving on the regualr UHD price
Please re-check your math. $14.99 + $9.99 is $24.98, which is effectively the same price as buying the 4K. So someone who bought the movie for $14.99 and then upgraded has lost nothing compared to someone who waited for 4K, and they had the benefit of enjoying the movie in the meantime.
 
Please re-check your math. $14.99 + $9.99 is $24.98, which is effectively the same price as buying the 4K. So someone who bought the movie for $14.99 and then upgraded has lost nothing compared to someone who waited for 4K, and they had the benefit of enjoying the movie in the meantime.

Exactly the point I’m trying to make Mike. There is no benefit to buying digital and then upgrading to UHD. Yet D2D is likely to be much less to upgrade.


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The benefit is you have access to the movie before it’s available in 4k. I see this the same as having bought a blu-ray then later purchasing the 4k version when it’s released… except in that case you have to pay full price again where here, K is saving you money on the upgrade…

If you want to not own the movie until the d2d is available for the most up to date version, you certainly can.


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The benefit is you have access to the movie before it’s available in 4k. I see this the same as having bought a blu-ray then later purchasing the 4k version when it’s released… except in that case you have to pay full price again where here, K is saving you money on the upgrade…

If you want to not own the movie until the d2d is available for the most up to date version, you certainly can.


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There is no saving in this instance - the whole point of my post was to point this out. There is no incentive to buy the HD version from the store and then upgrade.


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There is no saving in this instance - the whole point of my post was to point this out. There is no incentive to buy the HD version from the store and then upgrade.


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There are no savings, but you also aren't paying extra. So it is absolutely the perspective that you look at this arrangement from.

The incentive is that if you want the movie but it is only in HD, to go ahead and buy it and if / when it gets released in 4K / HDR, the upgrade cost brings it up to the same as what you would have paid just by waiting for the 4K / HDR release. So the argument is correct both ways, there is no incentive to buy it if you are on the fence, but there is also not a disincentive to not wait. The cost is basically the same buying it in HD and then later in 4k, or buying it outright in 4k. If I buy a movie on Blu-Ray and 7 days (or whatever the return period is) later the 4K version comes out of a movie, I've paid more then if I had just waited for the 4K movie. So I'm dis-incentivized to buy the Blu-Ray version in the store. At least with KScape you come out at basically the same price and have had the movie available to watch for longer, albeit in a lesser quality.
 
There is no saving in this instance - the whole point of my post was to point this out. There is no incentive to buy the HD version from the store and then upgrade.


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Why do you expect a savings? I’m not getting your take here …..

You buy the HD version because you want the movie. If it comes out in 4k later, you get to upgrade and get the full credit of what you already paid for the HD version.
 
I think what they are talking is the way D2D work.

Let’s assume you have the disc copy.

Scenario 1: You D2D for $4.92 for the HD download. A while later UHD download becomes available and the upgrade cost is an additional $9.99. Total spent : $14.91

Scenario 2: you hold off for the UHD download to become available and then D2D for $4.92 for the UHD copy. Total spent: $4.92


Note 1: You can catalog the disc and D2D again (2nd time) to upgrade the HD download to UHD download (when available) for $4.92. This is better than $9.99 but still more expensive than the Scenario 2.

Note 2: You can D2D for $4.92 for an imported (to a Premier system) title. Once you delete this import from the Premiere system (why would you keep both the download and the import?), you no longer get the D2D a second time when the UHD download becomes available. You need to figure out a way to catalog the deleted import to get the D2D a second time.
 
Is it still doing the bifurcated D2D pricing? I thought they fixed that after we raised the concern during the last massive D2D sale, but maybe that was a one-shot thing.
 
Why do you expect a savings? I’m not getting your take here …..

You buy the HD version because you want the movie. If it comes out in 4k later, you get to upgrade and get the full credit of what you already paid for the HD version.

Clearly a badly phrased “principled” comment. Hadn’t had my pitcher of marguerites when I posted.

More a case of buy disc, catalog and get upgrade price of $4.92 (or whatever the upgrade price is) and no previous support for the store. Buy from and support store but upgrade is $9.99.


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I would think that it would be trivial for a system to realize that you had already done D2D (just auto catalog the title!), so you wouldn't have to go through the process all over again.
So, (mostly) good news. We have recently made changes to our headend software. The headend used to base its understanding of the discs you own on the inventory uploaded by your system. That inventory is updated fairly frequently, so if you did a disc-to-digital purchase and then deleted the disc version from your system to clean things up, the headend would quickly lose track of the fact that you own the disc.

As of the recent changes, the headend preserves knowledge of your discs even if you remove them from your system. This means that going forward, you won't need to worry about having to stick the disc back in the system if an offer becomes available. This is especially valuable for customers who may be in a situation, say, where a disc-based system experiences a component failure. Since this is the sort of scenario that often prompts people to update to a download-based system, not losing the records of disc ownership greatly reduces the hassle of making the conversion to downloaded movies.

There's an important caveat here. This change applies to discs that were on your system when the headend software was updated (which was March 10 of this year). Unfortunately, it was not possible to retroactively record discs that had been removed prior to that date.
 
Nightmare Alley (2021) In HD updated to DTS-HD Master 7.1 from DTS-HD Master 5.1
 
HD version updated to Dolby Atmos from DTS-HD MA 7.1

A reference soundtrack !!
 
So, (mostly) good news. We have recently made changes to our headend software. The headend used to base its understanding of the discs you own on the inventory uploaded by your system. That inventory is updated fairly frequently, so if you did a disc-to-digital purchase and then deleted the disc version from your system to clean things up, the headend would quickly lose track of the fact that you own the disc.

As of the recent changes, the headend preserves knowledge of your discs even if you remove them from your system. This means that going forward, you won't need to worry about having to stick the disc back in the system if an offer becomes available. This is especially valuable for customers who may be in a situation, say, where a disc-based system experiences a component failure. Since this is the sort of scenario that often prompts people to update to a download-based system, not losing the records of disc ownership greatly reduces the hassle of making the conversion to downloaded movies.

There's an important caveat here. This change applies to discs that were on your system when the headend software was updated (which was March 10 of this year). Unfortunately, it was not possible to retroactively record discs that had been removed prior to that date.
The issue I still see here (unless I misunderstood) is the burden and knowledge needed by the end user to catalog. I own an Alto. If I stick a disc in and do the digital upgrade it does not automatically catalog that I own that disc, despite using it for the upgrade. You have to then press catalog disc. So what should be a one step process is now a two step and it also prevents you from future disc to digital updates without going back and reloading the disc. I personally have moved the majority of my DVD and Blu-ray collection to K and after I did the digital upgrades to HD or UHD I didn’t realize that I needed to also catalog every title for future updates. This process is almost ridiculous in the lack of info out there when it comes to even being available. I had multiple meetings with K directly and commented on the fact that it was a shame that there was no way to bring your current library into the fold and was never told otherwise by anyone at K. It was a someone later that is a K user that informed me this was even possible with something like an Alto, after months of me repurchasing titles I owned on disc at full price. Then later I find out that most of the discs I had moved to K needed to also be cataloged for future updates (most at half the cost) when I had given most of my collection of discs to family rather than storing them or I had boxed them up in the garage. So one day again, putting way to much burden and responsibility on the end user to know things that are not even remotely talked about in K literature which directly impacts the cost of ownership and usage.
 
Is anyone else having issues with updates? I got an update alert a few weeks back for AUDIO AND VIDEO improvements for both The Social Network and Samsara. I did those updates. Then I got another notice for AV updates for both of these titles a couple days ago and did those updates. Now today I am getting another update for AV for The Social Network. Is this just a bug or has K actually had to update this title 3 times already??
 
Is anyone else having issues with updates? I got an update alert a few weeks back for AUDIO AND VIDEO improvements for both The Social Network and Samsara. I did those updates. Then I got another notice for AV updates for both of these titles a couple days ago and did those updates. Now today I am getting another update for AV for The Social Network. Is this just a bug or has K actually had to update this title 3 times already??
Same thing here for The Social Network.
 
Apologies for this. The title actually has been updated three times recently. We are working on some encoder improvements and this is one of the titles that we started with. The update notification is automated but we're looking at suppressing them for incremental improvements that are good to have in the library but don't create a significant user-visible change that would warrant downloading an updated version.
 
The issue I still see here (unless I misunderstood) is the burden and knowledge needed by the end user to catalog. I own an Alto. If I stick a disc in and do the digital upgrade it does not automatically catalog that I own that disc, despite using it for the upgrade. You have to then press catalog disc. So what should be a one step process is now a two step and it also prevents you from future disc to digital updates without going back and reloading the disc. I personally have moved the majority of my DVD and Blu-ray collection to K and after I did the digital upgrades to HD or UHD I didn’t realize that I needed to also catalog every title for future updates. This process is almost ridiculous in the lack of info out there when it comes to even being available. I had multiple meetings with K directly and commented on the fact that it was a shame that there was no way to bring your current library into the fold and was never told otherwise by anyone at K. It was a someone later that is a K user that informed me this was even possible with something like an Alto, after months of me repurchasing titles I owned on disc at full price. Then later I find out that most of the discs I had moved to K needed to also be cataloged for future updates (most at half the cost) when I had given most of my collection of discs to family rather than storing them or I had boxed them up in the garage. So one day again, putting way to much burden and responsibility on the end user to know things that are not even remotely talked about in K literature which directly impacts the cost of ownership and usage.
This is a fair criticism. The experience for a new customer who wants to convert their existing disc library to download is particularly inadequate, and we're painfully aware of that. It's something that I hope we can improve sooner rather than later, but our software team is heavily subscribed with other work and so it is unfortunately competing for scarce resources.

Having said that, I would like to point out that there are really two typical use cases:
  1. New Users buying a Strato/Terra system: For these users, their dealer can assist them in the one-time process of cataloging their discs so that they can do the disc to digital conversion. We have made Alto players available to dealers specifically for this purpose, so from the end user perspective, this should not be a burden. Now that the headend remembers these cataloged discs more durably, even if a title is not available in the store, or is later offered in a better quality, the customer will still benefit from the upgrade pricing.
  2. Existing customers who have a disc-based library: These customers already have their discs either cataloged or imported, depending upon the type of system they own. Their disc ownership is now durably recorded on the headend, so when they want to switch to a downloaded version of the movie, they can do so.
I absolutely agree that the particular use case that you have described, where there is an Alto in the system, and an end user is manually inserting a disc to execute a digital offer without cataloging the disc, is less than ideal. The headend really should remember that this disc was used for a disc-to-digital purchase, so that a later quality upgrade could benefit from that pricing. However, this is not a common use case.

I will make sure that our team reinforces messaging to dealers in case #1 that they should catalog their customers' discs, and not just do a transient digital offer transaction.

Thank you as always for providing constructive feedback.
 
This is a fair criticism. The experience for a new customer who wants to convert their existing disc library to download is particularly inadequate, and we're painfully aware of that. It's something that I hope we can improve sooner rather than later, but our software team is heavily subscribed with other work and so it is unfortunately competing for scarce resources.

Having said that, I would like to point out that there are really two typical use cases:
  1. New Users buying a Strato/Terra system: For these users, their dealer can assist them in the one-time process of cataloging their discs so that they can do the disc to digital conversion. We have made Alto players available to dealers specifically for this purpose, so from the end user perspective, this should not be a burden. Now that the headend remembers these cataloged discs more durably, even if a title is not available in the store, or is later offered in a better quality, the customer will still benefit from the upgrade pricing.
  2. Existing customers who have a disc-based library: These customers already have their discs either cataloged or imported, depending upon the type of system they own. Their disc ownership is now durably recorded on the headend, so when they want to switch to a downloaded version of the movie, they can do so.
I absolutely agree that the particular use case that you have described, where there is an Alto in the system, and an end user is manually inserting a disc to execute a digital offer without cataloging the disc, is less than ideal. The headend really should remember that this disc was used for a disc-to-digital purchase, so that a later quality upgrade could benefit from that pricing. However, this is not a common use case.

I will make sure that our team reinforces messaging to dealers in case #1 that they should catalog their customers' discs, and not just do a transient digital offer transaction.

Thank you as always for providing constructive feedback.
Thanks for the feedback! I think it would just make things easier that if you insert a disc and do a digital upgrade it just auto adds to library. Especially since if you executed the sale, you are already adding it to the library. It should just flag it as a disc to digital for future updates (maybe HD to 4K) so that the client has the D2D pricing vs a store update price. Or make it even simpler and have the store upgrade pricing the same as the disc to digital upgrade price from one format to another.
 
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