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  #11  
Old Mar 14th, 2017
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audioguy123 audioguy123 is offline
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I'm probably not the norm, but decided that the integration outweights 4K/HDR. I purchase everything I can in 4K from Kscape. If they don't offer the 4K version, I purchase either the HD version (if they sell it - which will likely be upgradable in the future as these are current studios that K has agreements with) or in the case of Paramount (or others), I only the purchase the bluray and pop it into my DV700. I'm finding that I'm watching more movies than ever before and digging deeper into my collection. All, because I don't have to stand in front of a LOT of disks and decide what to watch. With that said, I hope they offer more 4K and get Paramount. My system scales all of my content to 4K and 1080P content (done right) looks fantastic especially for projector based systems. SJ
I like your approach. I have already by-passed a 4K version (Passengers) for the BR version and gave up Atmos along with it. But my processor does an incredible job of providing "fake" 3D audio from a 5.1 or 7.1 version and my PJ (JVC RS500) does an INCREDIBLE job on 1080P. Not a lot to give up for keeping the integration. I may just continue along this path for a few more years until the studios get the HDR standards agreed to and K will have more time to get more studios on board - and maybe K will eventually have a 4K version of the DV700.

Thanks for the thought !!!
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  #12  
Old Mar 14th, 2017
SJHT SJHT is offline
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I like your approach. I have already by-passed a 4K version (Passengers) for the BR version and gave up Atmos along with it. But my processor does an incredible job of providing "fake" 3D audio from a 5.1 or 7.1 version and my PJ (JVC RS500) does an INCREDIBLE job on 1080P. Not a lot to give up for keeping the integration. I may just continue along this path for a few more years until the studios get the HDR standards agreed to and K will have more time to get more studios on board - and maybe K will eventually have a 4K version of the DV700.

Thanks for the thought !!!
Yeah we have similar setups as I have a RS600. With my Lumagen Pro doing all of its wonders turning everything into 4K I have a hard time complaining about how good 1080P sources look. Makes integration with K work great. Although Strato having the ability to play everything from the DV700 would be the icing to integration. On the audio side, I have a McIntosh MX160 which is a dream for audio. SJ
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  #13  
Old Mar 15th, 2017
mbmapit mbmapit is offline
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While I do agree with most of the comments made so far I think the most glaringly obvious things that have been overlooked so far are:

1. There are currently 0 third party UHD drives available to the market (Pioneer launching 2 later this month). So, if K wanted to get one in a Strato they would have needed to pay huge amounts to the likes of Sony/Samsung/Panasonic.

2. On the same token there are 0 slim UHD optical drives and 0 announced. Perhaps K are looking at doing a UHD vault but they can't do anything until the hardware physically exists.

I don't believe for one moment that they aren't considering either of the above. I am sure they are aware that currently the Encore range is nowhere near as fluid as it should be compared to how Blu-ray was/is handled on their other systems.

I know Kaleidescape are fighting tooth and nail to get more content and unfortunately things take time. I fully believe they will get the remaining studios on board but they will still need to fight for each title released within each of those studios.

I am happy to wait it out as I know K are heading in the right direction
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  #14  
Old Mar 15th, 2017
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While I do agree with most of the comments made so far I think the most glaringly obvious things that have been overlooked so far are:

1. There are currently 0 third party UHD drives available to the market (Pioneer launching 2 later this month). So, if K wanted to get one in a Strato they would have needed to pay huge amounts to the likes of Sony/Samsung/Panasonic.

2. On the same token there are 0 slim UHD optical drives and 0 announced. Perhaps K are looking at doing a UHD vault but they can't do anything until the hardware physically exists.

I don't believe for one moment that they aren't considering either of the above. I am sure they are aware that currently the Encore range is nowhere near as fluid as it should be compared to how Blu-ray was/is handled on their other systems.

I know Kaleidescape are fighting tooth and nail to get more content and unfortunately things take time. I fully believe they will get the remaining studios on board but they will still need to fight for each title released within each of those studios.

I am happy to wait it out as I know K are heading in the right direction
I am not aware of 1 or 2. BUT, what would be nice, is if K were to affirm your next paragraph, that indeed a product plan (no dates, since that got them into trouble last time) would be for a 4K compliant DV700 once cost effective drives were available - and/or a drive in the Strato itself. I have no doubt the first sentence of your next paragraph is true.

And "waiting it out" is exactly what I am doing. As SJHT said, I am perfectly OK with 1080P in my system, including the Alto and DV700. In a couple of years, K will hopefully have all studios on board, have 4K drives in their 4K products and there actually may be HDR standards that the studios can follow.

I certainly have faith that eventually K will get all of this done or I would not have purchased additional products since the they re-opened their doors.
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Old Mar 15th, 2017
JerryL JerryL is offline
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I think you guys are simply missing the fact that the studios will not allow any kind of "ripping". From my limited understanding, I think this is in the "never gonna happen" category. I also don't think they will need to fight for each title, as I understand it (limited), I think the deals include most titles. The real question is why the studios would want to partner with Kaleidescape right now.

To the other thread and quality, VUDU, etc.... All that has to happen is for someone like Amazon, who has deals with all the studios, to decide to charge a fee for super resolution and they can deliver the content.

Sorry for throwing cold water on things, its just how I see it.
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  #16  
Old Mar 15th, 2017
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I think you guys are simply missing the fact that the studios will not allow any kind of "ripping". From my limited understanding, I think this is in the "never gonna happen" category. I also don't think they will need to fight for each title, as I understand it (limited), I think the deals include most titles. The real question is why the studios would want to partner with Kaleidescape right now.

To the other thread and quality, VUDU, etc.... All that has to happen is for someone like Amazon, who has deals with all the studios, to decide to charge a fee for super resolution and they can deliver the content.

Sorry for throwing cold water on things, its just how I see it.
It has absolutely ZERO to do with ripping. And the only way Amazon could do what K does it to build a device to be used at the user end to capture the data, similar to the Alto or Strato. Streaming 4K HDR non compressed video along with a full bandwidth audio signal, also non-compressed is not realistic at this moment. And the user interface that Amazon provides with their current 4K box is a joke compared to the K capability. And why, after 12 years, would the studios all of a sudden not want to partner with K?????? And lastly, Amazon would be foolish to chase the niche high end audio/video market. They can spend their money and resources elsewhere and get a much larger return.
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  #17  
Old Apr 9th, 2017
JerryL JerryL is offline
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I think you are not understanding the nature of some of the attitudes out there among the professionals that make up the deals with Kaleidescape. My opinion, only partially informed, is they would view the placement of any kind of disc reader into the device as a clear intention by Kaleidescape to re-engage with "ripping". And they just can't stomach that. Hence we have downloading only. Go back to the DVDCCA episode for more insight. Consider the Disney Opt In....

As to the streaming services, I was told they either have it now or will have it soon. Its really no big deal- they all get the data in the same format and then adjust it as they need it.

I agree K still has the best UI, but Amazon (or any other streaming company) can give you max quality at home and compressed on the go via your device. I think that is the risk Kaleidescape faces. I hope they find a way to stay relevant, I think for the ultra high end there still is a place for them. But I also think with every day, that space shrinks.
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  #18  
Old Apr 9th, 2017
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My opinion, only partially informed, is they would view the placement of any kind of disc reader into the device as a clear intention by Kaleidescape to re-engage with "ripping". And they just can't stomach that. Hence we have downloading only.
.

Then how do you explain the Alto which does have a disc reader? I don't have any insight into what goes on inside of K, but at the time the Strato was announced, I am not aware of any available 4K readers they could have used. BUT lack of a reader only becomes a serious issue if K does not get access to all of the major studios films ON A TIMELY BASIS, OR, never develops a DV700 product for the Strato.

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But I also think with every day, that space shrinks.
On that point, I wholeheartedly agree !!
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Old Apr 9th, 2017
JerryL JerryL is offline
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.

Then how do you explain the Alto which does have a disc reader? I don't have any insight into what goes on inside of K, but at the time the Strato was announced, I am not aware of any available 4K readers they could have used. BUT lack of a reader only becomes a serious issue if K does not get access to all of the major studios films ON A TIMELY BASIS, OR, never develops a DV700 product for the Strato.
Easy, the Alto is a BR machine and not a UHD machine. UHD has a different set of rules.

Also, consider the K Scape 4K stuff does not use any kind of RAID and the answer to the question on why is because your content is all provided from download so any drive replacement will replace from the cloud, not local source. Hence, this assumes no need for a drive. As an editorial comment, I disagree with, because the K model is still local storage playback and if you are short on bandwidth or if its interrupted and you have a drive failure, then you can be down your playback ability. Not so with the Premiere. I wish they kept the RAID storage concept for UHD.

I'm sure Kaleidescape was aware of whatever readers were or would be available. I just don't think their 4K solution was ever intended to include a disc reader.

And with that in mind, I have to say I've never really understood the Alto- it strikes me as a product intended to crossover between both systems- but it doesn't give me the robust advantages of the the Premiere with its RAID and it doesn't give me any real integration with 4K/ UHD content.

See, while you can store BR content on the Terra and play it back on the Alto, its not subject to the same rules as UHD content.

I can turn this around: they had an Encore product with a reader in it. Then why remove a feature for the higher end product? Answer: they had to.

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.

On that point, I wholeheartedly agree !!
Yeah, it makes me concerned for our beloved Kaleidescape and sad about it too.

Just last week I read a story that Apple might be bringing a 4K Apple TV soon and it might even feature in theater movies?! This is just from a few Apple fan websites, but what's stopping them from doing this right now? Its not technological. And it doesn't have to be Apple, it could be any one of the usual suspects. As soon as they can work it out with the legal side, they will. And then what happens? My Apple TV outputs a solid 60P frame rate, not exactly what I want for movies shot/ mastered in 24, so I really don't want to end up using this as my prime source, but something like this could be a real problem. Imagine how I might feel if I had just bought into Prima Cinema?! (I'm not even sure if they are around).
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Last edited by JerryL; Apr 9th, 2017 at 03:36 PM.
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