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  #1  
Old Dec 25th, 2010
Joelc Joelc is offline
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Default Hardware Needs...

Apologies in advace for what will likely be a simple question but I have not been able to find teh answer anywhere...

I am considering purchasing a K system now that i) Blu-rays can be includede therein and ii) my home is now essentially complete...

The thing that is unclear to me is what is needed...

While I recognize that one of teh primaru advanatages of the K system is video distribution I am going to start with a system that will be geared exclusively to my hime theatre...

With the release of the Vault I know that I need one [or more of these] to house the phyiscal disks...no problem here..

With respect toe the server I believe that I need one of thses as the disk need tobe "copied/ripped/stored" somewhere...can someone please confirm this...

With resepct to the media player I know that I need one of the M300 or M500...as I have no interest in playing a disk directly from the player [i.e. I have an Oppo BDP-93 for this] I was thinking that there is no downside in terms of either audio or video quality in going with the M300...can someone please confirm this...

+++++++++++++++


So, assuming my understanding is correct I will need an M300, a server and thet vault....

Thanks in advance,

Joel
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  #2  
Old Dec 25th, 2010
cinelife cinelife is offline
 
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Location: Florida, Indiana, California, Honolulu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post
Apologies in advace for what will likely be a simple question but I have not been able to find teh answer anywhere...

I am considering purchasing a K system now that i) Blu-rays can be includede therein and ii) my home is now essentially complete...

The thing that is unclear to me is what is needed...

While I recognize that one of teh primaru advanatages of the K system is video distribution I am going to start with a system that will be geared exclusively to my hime theatre...

With the release of the Vault I know that I need one [or more of these] to house the phyiscal disks...no problem here..

With respect toe the server I believe that I need one of thses as the disk need tobe "copied/ripped/stored" somewhere...can someone please confirm this...

With resepct to the media player I know that I need one of the M300 or M500...as I have no interest in playing a disk directly from the player [i.e. I have an Oppo BDP-93 for this] I was thinking that there is no downside in terms of either audio or video quality in going with the M300...can someone please confirm this...

+++++++++++++++


So, assuming my understanding is correct I will need an M300, a server and thet vault....

Thanks in advance,

Joel


Hi Joel, you are correct. The only components needed for a DVD/CD setup is a Server (to store content) and a Player capable of importing to that Server and playing back the content from the Server. That's the "basic" requirement for any K System.

If you also want to be able to store and playback Blu-ray content, then at a minimum you will need to add either an M500 Player (assuming you don't already have one with the DVD system I desribed above), or an M300 AND a Vault (MDV). The vault is needed if you want to import content and playback without the need to put the physical BR disk in the M500 tray (because it will already be in the Vault).

There are several Player models but the latest models are the M-series (M300 and M500). These are required for BR Playback (as well as taking advantage of the full functionality of the latest KEAOS software update). The other Players available (some through K that are refurbished, or in the private resale market) are 2500, MP2, and the 1080p Models, but these do not import or playback BR content.

Given the above, your understanding is correct, at a minimum you will need a Server, M300 and MDV (vault).

Servers include: Cinema One (not really built for BR, very limited capacity), or a 1U, again, not ideal for BR because it only has three usable storage slots and currently the largest drives are 2TB (total of 6TB max.), or a 3U (this is K's largest capacity server (12 storage slots (24TB possible)), and available as a refurbished model, the 5U (this was K's largest Server until it was replaced by the 3U. A limitation of the 5U is that the largest drive available for a 5U is limited to 750GB.

Hope that helps.


Jim
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  #3  
Old Dec 25th, 2010
Croptop Croptop is offline
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One quick warning: if you opt to buy a 1U or 3U server, M300 player and a modular disc vault, you will have a system that will be limited to Blu-ray content only since the MDV does not import DVDs or CDs. To import DVD/CD content, you need a player that has an optical drive (M500 or KPLAYER-6000), or a Cinema One or you'll want to wait for the Integrated Disc Vault which will handle DVD and CD content.
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  #4  
Old Dec 26th, 2010
Joelc Joelc is offline
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Cinelife and Croptop:

Appreciate the helpful and tiemly responses...

I guess that it is looking like:

a) CONFIGURATION 1: 3U server + M300 + IDV; Or

b) CONFIGURATION 2: 3U server + M500 + MDV

And, as far as follow up questions are concerned:

a) Any idea as to pricing and timing on the IDV

b) Any idea as the base/smallest configuration in terms of disc space in the 3U server

c) Any idea as to the pricing model on the 3U server; that is, is the cost the same between buying the unit fully configured [i.e. maximum capacity] versus adding capacity [i.e. disk space as you go]

d) As far as the 5U server is cocnerned how many 750GB drives does it hold so that I can do a comparison between the 24TB maximum of the 3u server

e) Concerning pricing is their a list/resource for MSRP pricing that is readily available other than through the dealer...note, the reason that I ask is that I would like to do some work on this project over the next day or two...

Thanks in advance for all of your help...


Joel
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  #5  
Old Dec 26th, 2010
Croptop Croptop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelc View Post
Cinelife and Croptop:
a) CONFIGURATION 1: 3U server + M300 + IDV; Or

b) CONFIGURATION 2: 3U server + M500 + MDV
An Integrated Disc Vault has a player built into it so you won't need the M300 with configuration 1 unless you want two playback zones.

Quote:
b) Any idea as the base/smallest configuration in terms of disc space in the 3U server
A 3U server requires a minimum of 3 drives. Keep in mind that the third drive is a hot spare and does not contribute to the overall available drive space. A 3U with 3 drives would give you the same usable space as a 1U with 2 drives.
Current shipping drives are 2 TB.

Quote:
d) As far as the 5U server is cocnerned how many 750GB drives does it hold so that I can do a comparison between the 24TB maximum of the 3u server
Twelve.
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  #6  
Old Dec 26th, 2010
JerryL JerryL is offline
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Hi Joel, we meet again (we know each other from the Meridian board )

My thoughts:

If its just one zone of playback Id strongly suggest you get the M500 player. The reason is I believe the MDV cannot import CDs. And there no doubt some movies you have on DVD that youll want to import and then not want to occupy a spot in the vault- you could manually remove them but why bother. So my thought is you should have at least 1 M500 player in the system.

I hear the IDV won't be out for several months (my own guesstimate and its MINE so don't read anything into it- is May/June). Id suggest you get one or more MDV (but each MDV needs to connect to a player whether its M500 or 300) for now and then maybe see what the IDV will be about. I know it will hold 300-320 discs which is nice but it will also incorporate a player in it and Ive heard the price will be over 2x the price of the MDV (makes sense). My point is if you want it now thats what I suggest. And I suggest you steer clear of the 5U. Its fine if you already owned one but for a new system, the 3U is a far superior product. The 5U is limited to 750gb drives, its out of production, though they still support it, and the 3U has the hot swap drive that comes on line if there is a failure- so if that happens- and disk failures do happen- over the years Ive had two or three go bad (I think 2 with my old 5U and one with a 3U (the 2 didnt happen at the same time)) then you have the benefit of the RAID helping you out but ordinarily you have lost your safety net with a drive failure. With the hot swap drive, you still have the safety net. Very smart. Worth it IMHO.

As an aside, if you are going to use the system for CD audio playback, my testing says to go with the SPDIF output as its bit accurate- the HDMI is but for me it tricks my processor into thinking its a 5.1 soundtrack and thus Im stuck with 5.1 playback modes only.

I resolved the issue of the players lack of internal decoding of TruHD and DTS MA here:

http://www.kscapeowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=862

Welcome to the family
__________________
Best regards,
Jerry
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  #7  
Old Dec 26th, 2010
cinelife cinelife is offline
 
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Joel, final pricing on the IDV has not been determined yet. No actual release date yet either, but expected mid-late next year.

Good "catch" Croptop, I should have been more clear about the MDV/M300 limitation.


Jim
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  #8  
Old Dec 26th, 2010
Joelc Joelc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croptop View Post
An Integrated Disc Vault has a player built into it so you won't need the M300with configuration 1 unless you want two playback zones.
Appreciated, noted and understood...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Croptop View Post
A 3U server requires a minimum of 3 drives. Keep in mind that the third drive is a hot spare and does not contribute to the overall available drive space. A 3U with 3 drives would give you the same usable space as a 1U with 2 drives.
Current shipping drives are 2 TB.
Again, apprecaited, noted and understood...
[/QUOTE]




Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryL View Post
Hi Joel, we meet again (we know each other from the Meridian board )
Funny how that keeps happening...good to see you as well and happy holidays to yoru and your family...



Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryL View Post
If its just one zone of playback Id strongly suggest you get the M500 player. The reason is I believe the MDV cannot import CDs. And there no doubt some movies you have on DVD that youll want to import and then not want to occupy a spot in the vault- you could manually remove them but why bother. So my thought is you should have at least 1 M500 player in the system.
Makes sense to me...



Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryL View Post
I hear the IDV won't be out for several months (my own guesstimate and its MINE so don't read anything into it- is May/June). Id suggest you get one or more MDV (but each MDV needs to connect to a player whether its M500 or 300) for now and then maybe see what the IDV will be about. I know it will hold 300-320 discs which is nice but it will also incorporate a player in it and Ive heard the price will be over 2x the price of the MDV (makes sense). My point is if you want it now thats what I suggest.
I am going to have to think this one through a bit as I would like to have all my disk stored in one area of the house -- that being the rack room -- as they seem to disappear with teenagers around ...and, on top of that, there is no gurantee of a second zone, at least not yet!

It would be great were there the ability to daisy chain the MDV as this would most definitely solve my problem and I would jump on it right now...as it is, I will have to think through the limitations of the MDV's connectability for the reasons noted above...



Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryL View Post
And I suggest you steer clear of the 5U. Its fine if you already owned one but for a new system, the 3U is a far superior product. The 5U is limited to 750gb drives, its out of production, though they still support it, and the 3U has the hot swap drive that comes on line if there is a failure- so if that happens- and disk failures do happen- over the years Ive had two or three go bad (I think 2 with my old 5U and one with a 3U (the 2 didnt happen at the same time)) then you have the benefit of the RAID helping you out but ordinarily you have lost your safety net with a drive failure. With the hot swap drive, you still have the safety net. Very smart. Worth it IMHO.

Appreciated, noted and understood...the 3U it is...



Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryL View Post
As an aside, if you are going to use the system for CD audio playback, my testing says to go with the SPDIF output as its bit accurate- the HDMI is but for me it tricks my processor into thinking its a 5.1 soundtrack and thus Im stuck with 5.1 playback modes only.

I resolved the issue of the players lack of internal decoding of TruHD and DTS MA here:

http://www.kscapeowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=862
Not an issue for me as I am using a separate system for that throughout the house...a very user friendly SONOS that everyone knows and loves..



Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryL View Post
Welcome to the family

Thanks but I am getting close but not there yet...




Quote:
Originally Posted by cinelife View Post
Joel, final pricing on the IDV has not been determined yet. No actual release date yet either, but expected mid-late next year.

Good "catch" Croptop, I should have been more clear about the MDV/M300 limitation.


Jim
Jim, appreciate the feedback, very helpful indeed...
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  #9  
Old Dec 26th, 2010
JerryL JerryL is offline
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Thanks Joel- you too.

If its one zone then maybe its best to just wait the few months.

I would prefer to have all the discs in one spot. In my case I have 300-400 BRs. I figured that since I have several zones of playback and I could plug the MDV into those and I actually have closet space in those areas I could just slap a few MDVs around the house. Its not the more centralized setup I naturally default to- but the truth is once the discs are imported those vaults are there just to verify the discs presence.

You could get up and going with 1 M500 and 1 MDV and then when the IDV comes out you can add that and you could just use the IDV for storage. Or you could get as many MDV as you need and add M300s to those. The vault is surprisingly light and not that physically large. You could plop a M300 right on top and it seems like it would not not a big deal.
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Best regards,
Jerry
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  #10  
Old Dec 27th, 2010
Joelc Joelc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryL View Post
Thanks Joel- you too.

If its one zone then maybe its best to just wait the few months.
Yes, I hear you and in making the decision as to what to do I will have to consider the tradeoffs between:

i) Getting a system aup and going now.

ii) The likelihood of doing multiple zone and, at that, how many zones would I do noting my best guess at this time would be 2 to 3 [i.e. home theatre, family room and kid's family room]...probably wont do one in the bedroom as the person I bought the house from did a dumb thing in that they designed the master bedroom such that teh largest TV that fit in there without re-doing the entire wall of built ins is 32" .

iii) The ability/acceptability of hanging multiple MDVs off of the M300s in other zones which, as you know, does not appeal to me.

Now, were one able to daisy chanin MDVs then I would pull the trigger now subject to pricing...and, on that note, anyone have a current price list and a rough idea of dealer discounting...



Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryL View Post
I would prefer to have all the discs in one spot. In my case I have 300-400 BRs. I figured that since I have several zones of playback and I could plug the MDV into those and I actually have closet space in those areas I could just slap a few MDVs around the house. Its not the more centralized setup I naturally default to- but the truth is once the discs are imported those vaults are there just to verify the discs presence.

You could get up and going with 1 M500 and 1 MDV and then when the IDV comes out you can add that and you could just use the IDV for storage. Or you could get as many MDV as you need and add M300s to those. The vault is surprisingly light and not that physically large. You could plop a M300 right on top and it seems like it would not not a big deal.
I have read that the M500 is 1U, that the server is 3U and that the MDV is 5U but with respect to the MDV's width is it possible to mount two of them side by side in a MA rack [and yes, one would have to order a custom made shelf] or are they too wide...

Thanks,

Joel
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